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[00:00:00:00 – 00:00:32:14]My guest today is an internationally renowned DJ who has performed across the world and top of the pots with Blockster, You Should Be Dancing. Some of you will remember my list made on the Brit Awards which sort of made me a household name I think. Brandon Block! I was introduced to drugs very early on, about 30 and myself and my cousin took me through and had a little go. I was at a family wedding when I was 16. I had drunk myself into this horrendous state. My dad grabbed me to the car and he grabbed me, what I now know to become a line. Dad gave you a bum. He did.

[00:00:33:15 – 00:00:37:09]So my tolerance had gone through the roof and I was actually trying to get rid of myself.

[00:00:39:00 – 00:00:45:16]The amounts were just horrendous. I’ve quoted been saying 28 grams a day. So from 88 to 96 was every day. Eight years daily.

[00:00:46:21 – 00:00:55:19]I don’t remember a time when I was an absolute for more than maybe two days. How much of your usage do you put down to the environment of being in that music industry? Well all of it.

[00:00:56:21 – 00:01:03:24]I realised what it was that was holding me in the behaviour and it was the fear of living without drugs. What would the world be like for me without this every day?

[00:01:05:04 – 00:01:08:21]Place I am now is so abhorrent and there’s no reason to go back.

[00:01:08:21 – 00:01:16:06]Elliot Ward, what? Addiction specialist, you’ve become a happy queen with me.

[00:01:18:10 – 00:02:10:04]Hello and welcome to another episode of Coming Clean With Me. My name is Elliot Wald, addiction specialist. And my guest today is an internationally renowned DJ who has performed across the world. Famous space terrace in Ibiza with Alex P. And top of the pots with Blockster, you should be dancing. Please welcome Brandon Block. Hello, hello everyone. How you doing, Brandon? Nice to see you, Elliot. Nice to get this finally done. Indeed, indeed. For those who don’t know, Brandon and I recorded this about a year ago, but unfortunately, the quality wasn’t good enough for you all. So here we are again, courtesy of Canvas Nightclub in Bournemouth, who’ve allowed us to use their space. Thank you very much to Canvas Nightclub. And here we are with Brandon Block. Brandon, tell me about growing up, where you grew up, what that was like for you, early years.

[00:02:11:12 – 00:02:28:09]So basically I grew up in Wembley. I was born in Hackney, East London. I moved to Wembley when we were about three years old. I grew up in Wembley. I had a, I don’t, I mean, you know, I don’t remember it being traumatic. I mean, it obviously was in some places, but I generally grew up in the eighties,

[00:02:29:16 – 00:02:33:03]which was pubs, clubs, dancing,

[00:02:34:10 – 00:02:47:00]not so many drugs back then, but just, I think it was just a fairly normal eighties young teenager growing up in a world of, you know, having fun.

[00:02:48:20 – 00:03:26:00]School wasn’t fantastic. I mean, I’m not saying, you know, I think, piecing to what everyone talks about now, which is ADHD, but you know, back then it was just, he can’t concentrate. And if only he could focus instead of looking out the window and he would be a lot better than he is. And his results would be a lot better. So that was me sort of growing up. I, you know, school was fine. Where did you get into music? So basically here’s a story, right? So I was bullied at school a little bit. And I think that later on, this becomes apparent when I created this mask of being like a loony.

[00:03:27:01 – 00:03:33:08]It was to protect myself. So, you know, I think that was the way that I found that would be the best way to do it.

[00:03:34:14 – 00:03:45:23]Anyway, I was walking through the corridors one day and this huge Nigerian fifth year came up to me. He said, they introduced me. I said, my name’s Yemi.

[00:03:47:01 – 00:04:28:24]And he said, I’ve seen you’ve been struggling a bit. And he said, I used to struggle a bit. He said, I will, you know, come with me for a little walk, et cetera. And I said, I’d love to. And he took me under his wing and sort of took me into the school lunchtime disco, which was, I was 11, 12. He was 14, 15. And it was where I applied my trade. I saw all the friends who are my friends still to this day. We grew up together in that, from that environment. They were playing jazz, funk, disco, hip hop, early hip hop. Probably wasn’t actually hip hop, which is probably jazz, funk and disco at the time. I learned to dance in that room. I learned to love my music in that room.

[00:04:30:16 – 00:05:26:17]And the funny thing is, Yemi, I always mention this story because it was so profound for me. And I was doing a roller disco at Hara Leisure Center. You may know. I do know it. Right, so there was the Byron Hall, which was synonymous for under 18s, under 16 discos, way, way, way back, and also roller disco. So we used to go to the under 18s. I was also a very good roller skater. And I’ve got my skates in my car actually. I can’t use them because we need a hip replacement. But I was doing a DJ for my Soul Radio, which is my radio station I’m on. And we were doing the DJ for the roller disco for that one evening. And I put my skates on to try and get round. And I couldn’t do like I used to. But anyway, I bumped into Yemi. I hadn’t seen him since school. And I cried. And I said to him, you have no idea what you did for my life. And he was overwhelmed as well. It was a lovely experience. And you had to say that you sort of shaped my life.

[00:05:27:22 – 00:05:37:10]It was incredible. So that was my sort of growing up for music. And music became my passion obviously. And it never changed from those early years.

[00:05:38:20 – 00:05:56:15]I always loved my music. And we threw my pals and the network we had at that time. It was all about pubs, music, dancing, drinking, whatever. You became one of the most recognised names in dance music. What was that rise like for you?

[00:05:58:06 – 00:06:24:08]I mean, I don’t know. I didn’t ask any of my peers. And I’m not sure it was planned in any way. We weren’t, I mean, it wasn’t even a thing then. DJs were radio DJs pretty much. Tony Blackburn and Robbie Vinson and various other luminaries of that era who we used to follow would be on the radio. Clubs were froggy. And there was some great, Chris Hill. There was some very old soul club do’s going on.

[00:06:25:18 – 00:06:27:20]But that was probably the underground scene then.

[00:06:30:05 – 00:07:00:15]So the rise was just strange. I mean, it was strange. I loved it. Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t realise it was happening. I think we were just so intent on partying and having a good time that this whole, let’s say the club scene as we know it now was evolving through acid house, through Ibiza, through the club scene just taking on this whole new musical genre, which just happened to link very well with ecstasy.

[00:07:02:13 – 00:07:16:04]Not that, I mean, it was a catalyst. A catalyst of freeing people’s minds musically, culturally, religiously, everyone became one. And to be part of that whole revolution, not revolution, evolution, sorry, wrong word.

[00:07:17:07 – 00:07:19:09]Incredible. And I still, 40 years down the line,

[00:07:20:10 – 00:07:36:09]dance music is still, dance music, it covers multiple genres. And people, artists, recording artists have to have dance mixes done of most records because it’s what gets played. People are so still hugely into clubs, festivals.

[00:07:38:13 – 00:07:38:18]Sorry.

[00:07:40:14 – 00:07:41:08]Yeah, quite handy.

[00:07:43:14 – 00:08:10:07]So yeah, that’s sort of how music’s evolved for me. And music and the club scene and the drug scene. And we’re gonna just moving forward, we’re gonna use the word the packet to describe cocaine because I cut some of this into shorts and some platforms don’t like the word cocaine. And how did the music scene and DJing and that era, how did you first get introduced to using any substance? How did that start for you? Well, actually, funnily enough,

[00:08:11:12 – 00:08:15:15]I was introduced to, let’s say drugs, very early on, about 13.

[00:08:17:21 – 00:08:36:14]My parents used to smoke the odd joint here and there. My mum, bless her, she gave me this joint that she’d had hanging around somewhere from Sensamilia, which at the time is the strongest weed available. And myself and my cousin, she’s like the younger than me, we took this thing and had a little go.

[00:08:38:23 – 00:08:40:07]Well, we had a thing called a whiteout.

[00:08:41:19 – 00:09:38:17](Laughing) And the pair of us are walking up the door at the under 80s disco, Harrow Legeres, and they’re going, what the hell are you two doing here? It was like, go away. And we obviously looked like ghosts. Anyway, so that really put me off for many years. And it was only when we were dancing to a, all my mates used to go and they said, “Look, you’ve got to come to this warehouse, Pi.” They’d been to one the week before. All tried to me, I suppose. And said, “Come along, you just got to hear the bells, “the bells, and the bells turned out to be a record “by Paul Okenvold, which was called Dance with the Devil.” And they had this huge crescendo of like a horn in bells, a fourth section in the middle, and which everyone used to, you know, involuntary hand movements too. So they said, “Come along.” And I went, I said, “No, I’m not getting involved.” And then, you know, we went to a party that week. I bought every acid house record I could find, because I– 80.

[00:09:40:21 – 00:09:43:18]What’s it, 80, eight, 87, so what was that?

[00:09:45:13 – 00:09:50:15]Oh, hello, 21. Okay. I said 21. But you know what, I can’t remember, I can’t work out.

[00:09:52:05 – 00:09:56:22]58 less. Or 58, so your 10 years, and what year was this?

[00:09:57:22 – 00:10:12:24]I don’t know, oh, 87, so I was at 87. 68, 68. 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27. Okay, so in your mid-20s? Early 20s. Okay. Early 20s. And then, you know, I had an X-T pill danceful night

[00:10:14:07 – 00:10:15:08]on the roof of a shed.

[00:10:17:21 – 00:10:26:20]Love, I was working at a record shop as well at the time, who had every new record coming in, and it was my mate, John Jules, and I love your bits, mate, all these years with my mentor, musically.

[00:10:28:16 – 00:10:49:06]Record shop was in Rainer’s Lane, called the Iron Disco Center, and yeah, so I suppose you can call it synchronicity, it all seemed to work, you know, the records, the music, the record shop, you know, my opening my mind and experimenting, I suppose.

[00:10:50:22 – 00:11:03:24]And then that’s what sort of happened, and you know, as I said, it was all right, you know, I think for many of us it was all right at that time, because– Did the ecstasy lead to the packet?

[00:11:05:02 – 00:11:13:11]Oh, no, no, so here’s another story, bless. My father, I was at a family wedding, I was 16, and I was called in havoc, because it was,

[00:11:16:18 – 00:11:42:21]something had gone on with my parents, and they worked together, but then they were together with new partners at this wedding, and all getting on famously, and I couldn’t work it out, so I had drunk myself into this horrendous state, called havoc at this wedding. My dad grabbed me to the car, I said, look, because my dad was in the Schmatter trade, so it was rife there back then in those days as well, so he said, come here, come here, so he gave me what I now know to become a line,

[00:11:44:03 – 00:11:54:01]straightened me right out, and I had no idea what it was, and I still didn’t know, only until later in my life that I realised what had gone on. Did dad gave you a bump? He did, bless.

[00:11:55:07 – 00:11:57:13]Anyway, yeah, look, listen, it is what it is. Go on.

[00:11:59:13 – 00:12:40:18]And yeah, so, I mean, obviously, that may have opened the door, I don’t know, but it didn’t open fully until four or five years later, so. And five years later, tell me about that, where were you, how did that happen? Well, we was in a rave, and a great party, I remember it vividly, called Destination Moon, it was in Acton, all-nighter, daylight came through the warehouse, windows, Lucy in the sky, with diamonds, it was playing, it was a very woodstock type experience, summer of love, and I met another friend who invited me to partake in a bit of hacking, I call it Wallop. Okay, let’s use Wallop. Wallop. Wallop.

[00:12:42:15 – 00:13:22:23]A bit of Wallop, let’s say, and I suppose from then, I don’t remember the journey of such, it just became very problematic later down the line. Do you think that took you years or months, or was your escalation quick, if you go back and think about it? It was pretty quick, I mean, I was rife for the party, so this was an option, you know, and it was an easy, it was a quick option, you know, we know how humans work now, we know about instant gratification, we know about quick fixes, dopamine hits, that worked for me, and it worked well, so I did it a lot, and– What’s a lot?

[00:13:24:08 – 00:13:38:20]I mean, it wasn’t like this, towards the end, I feel we get to the course the end, when I was very, a lot of self-loathing, which I wasn’t aware of at the time, but a lot of self-loathing, got self-hate, I think, probably,

[00:13:40:13 – 00:14:32:18]so my tolerance had gone through the roof, my constitution had gone through the roof, and I was actually trying to get rid of myself, but the only way I knew how, I mean, it was not as if I was gonna try any other way, because I realized that this was gonna work, if I’d carried on to the levels I was doing, and more, which I was attempting to do, it just didn’t work, and thankfully I’m here still to here today, so, I mean, the amounts were just horrendous, I can’t even begin to describe it, I’ve quoted been saying 28 grams a day, it was approximate, but it was a lot. I remember during our last interview, you told me about waking up, and there was a CD on the side with wallop on the CD, you’d wake up, carry on for the night. It would be, there would be a bag, I would never go to bed without a bag, readies for the morning, because I couldn’t get out there. When you say a bag, what do you mean by a bag? An eighth, which would be three and a half wallops,

[00:14:34:02 – 00:14:55:03]which I would do within an hour. You use a Henry in an hour? Yeah, easy. At that time, this is the last, this is at the end of my using, right, and it was an existence, it was horrendous, frightening. When I think about it now, and I think, how’s it even possible? But I remember what I used to do, I’d crack pipes under the bed, I used to wash up, I used to do it in my own laundry, let’s say,

[00:14:56:16 – 00:15:12:21]I mean, lucky enough, I hadn’t experienced one, but this one, and it only came back to me recently that we were sitting around in a crack den somewhere one evening, and I was with a load of friends, and I remember looking at this rock coming round on a pipe, and I was thinking, no one’s seen that, and I really want it, this is in my head.

[00:15:13:23 – 00:15:15:01]And just before it come to me,

[00:15:17:10 – 00:15:35:08]whoever was sitting next to me smoked his rock, it was like, and I went like this, and I thought, God, that is so powerful. If I carry on like this, I know it was gonna end up, so I stopped, would you believe, in the middle of the madness. During the sessions? During the sessions, I stopped, and I didn’t smoke crack once again, not once after that,

[00:15:36:13 – 00:15:50:17]which led me to believe now, thinking about it, that if decisions have been tensioned, and they’re powerful enough, they can work, regardless of anything, i.e. environment,

[00:15:52:01 – 00:15:57:18]association, triggers, because I’ve done that pretty much with everything I’ve stopped.

[00:15:58:20 – 00:16:02:23]That’s drugs, booze, smoking, crack.

[00:16:04:10 – 00:16:05:19]I mean, I’ve taken it to the max,

[00:16:06:22 – 00:16:09:22]rock bottom of everything, but they’ve stopped and not gone back, so.

[00:16:11:12 – 00:16:17:12]But what did it take to get you to the point where you had to hit rock bottom?

[00:16:19:03 – 00:16:27:21]Well, I was ill, physically ill. Yeah, tell me about that, because I remember saying like hepatitis or something. I had hep C, chemical hep C, it wasn’t for injecting.

[00:16:29:00 – 00:16:40:20]I had– When you say chemical hep C, what do you mean by that? It’s a chemical, it’s like, look, hep C is a enlarging the liver, right? So you get the jaundice, so you can get it from booze in. Mine was caused by the intake of drugs.

[00:16:42:20 – 00:16:54:11]So, you know, I beat that, and you can beat, I worked for the hep C trust recently. Did that cause lung issues? No, the lung issues was caused by a ballast lung infection, which I caught in Hong Kong, by diving off the ferry in the harbor.

[00:16:55:20 – 00:17:01:00]I remember this story. Yeah, very stupidly. Hold on a minute, you were off your trolley.

[00:17:02:01 – 00:17:03:08]Tell me about that.

[00:17:05:00 – 00:17:09:04]Can I pause for one second? Yes, it’s a phone call.

[00:17:11:01 – 00:17:14:19]Brandon left his phone on. I didn’t leave my phone on, I was ringing in my ears. Oh, I see.

[00:17:16:04 – 00:17:33:04]One of the consequences of being a DJ is you begin to lose your hearing and you end up with hearing aids, isn’t that right? You do. I can’t believe it. And hence the reason why Brandon has the hearing aids on. Right, okay, so that’s that. Tell me about the ferry. Ferry, so yeah, off my head, decided that would be a good idea in Hong Kong.

[00:17:34:11 – 00:17:47:13]Probably not the best thing to do tonight but in the water, I don’t recommend it. It’s highly dangerous. I came home to England, it was in 90s. Sorry, you jumped off the ferry. It was moving. I dived, yes, I was in to the harbor, yeah, as I was swimming back in.

[00:17:48:20 – 00:17:55:03]And they all did a human chain to get me back on from the other side without the ferry people.

[00:17:56:08 – 00:17:57:02]Very, very silly.

[00:18:01:00 – 00:18:07:09]And then, so I came back to England and I was coughing a lot and I had pains in my chest.

[00:18:08:11 – 00:18:12:17]And I was thinking, oh, this is not, I’m not feeling great. And I coughed a bit of blood up.

[00:18:13:17 – 00:18:21:18]And I thought, oh, no, I went to the doctor, he said, I need to go to the hospital, need to go to Northwick Park Hospital straight away, which I did, I had a chest stroke, they got me straight into the isolation ward.

[00:18:23:17 – 00:18:31:08]Turns out I had caught a lung infection similar to TB but a very far Eastern version,

[00:18:32:14 – 00:18:38:01]which was not contagious, but still, it’s a communicable disease and they have to, you know, put you in isolation.

[00:18:40:08 – 00:18:50:20]On that, that, because I was still using and drinking at the time, all the medication wasn’t working, so it just prolonged the illness alongside the hep and, you know, the lung infection now.

[00:18:53:05 – 00:19:06:05]Kidneys weren’t working great. I was losing a lot of weight, I weren’t eating food, obviously, because I was all constantly on, you know, the wallet, but I’d have one meal a day, which would be a bowl of Cocoa Pops and I would probably sprinkle stuff on that as well.

[00:19:07:09 – 00:19:09:14]Like, it was the hub of Tony Montana thing.

[00:19:11:10 – 00:19:30:02]And then, one day, I had a moment of clarity, epiphany moment, you know, the enlightening moment. Before we get to the one day of the enlightening moment, talk to me about over what duration was your usage, though. So from 88, pretty much to 96, was every day.

[00:19:31:04 – 00:20:13:02]88 to 96, that’s eight years. Full on. Eight years daily. Pretty much. I don’t remember a time when I was absent within that for more than maybe two days. And obviously, the last four years was every day. Okay, so the last four years, every day, and four years previous to that was more or less every day, but you might have missed the occasional day. And I know it got to going through a Henryan in a minute of two hours. So it must have progressed quite rapidly. And what quantity were you using come the end, let’s say, over a 24-hour period? Well, as I said, if I slept at all, I wasn’t just taking cocaine. I was taking Benzos and road hippos to sleep.

[00:20:14:24 – 00:20:23:11]Painkillers for my physical illness. I was also taking the TB medication, which they were prescribing, which wasn’t working because I was still drugging and stuff.

[00:20:25:16 – 00:20:32:22]Approximately, I would round about an ounce on a day. An ounce a day? A day, possibly. But don’t forget, because I was…

[00:20:34:14 – 00:21:06:04]Look, it’s astounding even when I say it myself. I can’t believe I was doing it, but I’m just rounding it off because I knew what I was getting. So I’d gone by like seven at lunchtime, used that, going by another seven in the evening, by another three when the pubs opened. But I was doing all this with friends, but that’s with the amount. So I was taking a lot. Yeah, I mean, the financial implications of that. I mean, I was in debt, obviously. I was paying for my habit. I was earning good money back then.

[00:21:07:13 – 00:21:25:07]But I had nothing because I was constantly paying off bills. You were burning through everything you were earning. Literally, maybe I bought a car here and there. I was still living at Mullensblessal. She didn’t know the half of what was going on. Maybe she was blind to it and she passed this year, go rest her soul. Wish you long life. Thank you.

[00:21:29:14 – 00:21:34:03]Yes, oh God, oh God. And do you know, I know we’re talking about it again now.

[00:21:37:07 – 00:23:00:24]I’ve noticed the last five, 10 years, I’ve completely forgot. I mean, only when I do podcasts, people ask me about that stuff. I’ve forgotten it. I don’t feel anything anymore. I don’t get triggered. I don’t get anything by talking about it. You know, like, you get a bit of a, No, I understand that. Colly wobble, but I don’t, it’s gone away. And for whatever done, it doesn’t register anymore. How much of your usage do you put down to the environment of being in that music industry? Well, all of it. All of it? Well, if I was doing something different, chances are it wouldn’t have been as available. I may have chosen a different path, who knows? But the stars aligned at that particular time. So I mean, I would say, but I was in clubs all the time. I was out all the time. I was very ready at home, literally. I was clubbing and partying five days a week. And if I was in Ibiza, it’d probably be seven days a week. So I didn’t have a lot of time at home. So there was no respite. There wasn’t, and there was no intent to respite. I had no intention of sort of curving that at the time. It was only when I got really ill that things became apparent. I’m lucky enough that I found out what was going on for me. Because I really feel for people, because I work in the field. And what did you do about your tribe, the people that used around you? I did nothing about them. I mean, I was, so look, I went back to,

[00:23:02:06 – 00:23:04:09]should I tell you the story how I got there? Yeah. Right.

[00:23:05:10 – 00:23:27:20]So the epiphany moment, because it all links. So the epiphany moment was I was in hospital, in Northfield Park, sitting on a chair, rocking backwards and forwards, asking for painkillers, benzodiazepines, anything I could get to take the pain away. You wanted the edge off. Huh? You want the edge off. Well, I want the pain away. Because now I was in pain. It wasn’t just about the edge of,

[00:23:29:01 – 00:23:56:07]I was still using, but self-medicating wasn’t working either. So none of it was numbing the illnesses. So the more I was taken to try and get over the, I was waking up in pain and then still carrying on. It was probably attributed to the amount of using, right? Because in a way, I suppose it took my mind off it, but it didn’t take the pain away. So I was sitting in the chair in the hospital, blah, blah, blah, blah, and rocking backwards and forwards and thinking, God. And then it came to me, the moment of,

[00:23:58:15 – 00:24:21:12]the moment of truth, let’s say. I realized what it was that was holding me in the behavior. And it was the fear of living without drugs. And I wasn’t aware of that at the time, because why would that come to me? No reason, but it came to me. That’s what I was scared of. What would the world be like for me without this every day? And that was, and you know,

[00:24:22:18 – 00:24:26:08]rationally, it’s a big fear because I’ve now got to address,

[00:24:27:11 – 00:24:30:12]because I’m now also fully emotional.

[00:24:32:09 – 00:24:49:18]And I don’t realize what’s underneath. So there’s all that fear going, what’s it gonna be like? How are you gonna be? How are you gonna survive? How are you gonna, you know, wherever? Who are you? Who am I? Exactly that. So all these questions, but I had a moment of clarity and I had a moment of calm, pure calm.

[00:24:50:19 – 00:25:04:16]Like when, you know, when you meditate or when you go on holiday and you sit on a beach, you forget everything, past, future, now, whatever’s going on, no phones, blah, blah, blah, you just have a moment of, and that’s exactly what happened. It was only a split second.

[00:25:05:17 – 00:25:15:07]And it was only for maybe half a minute, a minute that it lasted that, without the anxiety kicking back in again, because which I realized I was suffering from, massively.

[00:25:16:08 – 00:25:24:00]But it was enough for me to, my brain clunked. I felt like, I was like, like I let go of everything all at once.

[00:25:25:14 – 00:25:44:16]And on the back of that, that’s when I started doing the work. I started searching for, there’s a thing called the cycle of change, which they use in recovery, right? And for me, it’s fundamentally works. You found a path that was right for you. I did, but to get to that path,

[00:25:46:04 – 00:26:41:18]you broke yourself. I did, on both counts. The path, look, the path wasn’t, lit up like a yellow brick road at first, because I tried a couple of things. I went to the 12 steps, joined the fellowship for, you know, three months, but my head was in such a weird place. It was, I wasn’t able to, I couldn’t sit in a room. I could, I had to be on my own. I had to work this stuff out on my own. Later on, if, you know, I advocate massively for the fellowship, right? Because I work in recovery, have done for many years. I recommend that everyone goes, because it’s a support network. That is the key. You need to have support, if you’re gonna do this journey, it’s very difficult on your own, which I found out. And it’s, you know, maybe I was stubborn enough, maybe I don’t know what it was, but it never led me to, whatever came up for me, anxiety wise, fear,

[00:26:43:02 – 00:27:00:13]it never led me back to drugs. That, that door shut. That wasn’t my option door anymore. Look, I got, I’m, it’s intriguing, because what I find interesting is, music was your career passion. Then you had drugs and using. And I’m wondering when the drugs and using went,

[00:27:02:00 – 00:27:18:08]what you replaced that with? I replaced it with learning. Okay, go on. It was discovering me. I replaced it with getting over my anxieties and my fears of what have gone on in trauma, or whatever, how are we gonna describe it? That’s a daily task. You know, they say one day at a time, right?

[00:27:19:17 – 00:27:31:08]I did it my way, as Frankie said, but it wasn’t the easiest way. I realized now it wasn’t the easiest way. If we were gonna do, undertake a journey of, I call it discovery, because I’m not in recovery. I’m better.

[00:27:32:13 – 00:27:42:04]I’m not, I’m no longer ill, I’m well, you know? I don’t believe in the illness model. I believe it’s a series of bad behaviors and bad habits picked up and learned behaviors,

[00:27:43:17 – 00:27:47:00]which you can change. I can change, and you know, that old saying, I’ve changed my mind.

[00:27:48:11 – 00:27:52:07]I’ve changed my mind, and I can do that. I have the tools to be able to do that, and I can do.

[00:27:53:23 – 00:28:07:20]Excuse me, I’ve done it many times, around lots of things. But occasionally I’ll sit in– Sometimes you’ve changed it back. Yes, sometimes I’ve decided, you know, I’m gonna have a little bit of self-loathing or a little bit of anxiety or a little bit of this, a little bit of back.

[00:28:08:24 – 00:28:11:04]And I’ll sit in it, like we do, because we…

[00:28:13:10 – 00:28:41:14]Did you exercise? Did you– Yeah, but at that time, I ate. Okay. In the chart a night ago, where I went for three weeks, I ate morning noon, because I hadn’t eaten for like eight years or whatever, right, so I ate every food, every meal, and I put a load of weight on, unfortunately, which I’ve lost. Did you feel bad about that? Not at the time, I thought, oh, God, that was good. I went out thinking, food, it tastes wonderful. You know, I’ve never experienced food for the last, you know, however long it was. So that was my sort of substitute, I’d imagine,

[00:28:42:22 – 00:28:43:17]which has now changed.

[00:28:45:10 – 00:28:55:16]Wow, changed a long time ago. I mean, I could show you photos of me like 10 years ago, and I was 17, 18 stone. So I’ve lost, you know, five or six stone over the last few years.

[00:28:57:11 – 00:29:16:08]But that moment was, the moment of clarity was enough to get me motivated enough to find out where I needed to get help, what help I needed, how I was gonna do this, because I was, I just had no idea. I don’t know, how’d you stop? How’d you then change your whole life overnight?

[00:29:17:10 – 00:29:19:10]And you know, like Proskar, the psychiatrist,

[00:29:20:19 – 00:29:29:11]half glass, half full, or full glass, full jug, empty jug. So if you empty that jug without having something to fill this up with, there’s the void,

[00:29:30:13 – 00:29:34:11]boredom, hungry, lonely, tired, sad, depressed, whatever it is, right?

[00:29:36:17 – 00:30:09:10]So in replacing, I think I replaced it with learning about me and just being mindful of how I reacted, because I needed to do that for at least five years. There was no like, yes, I went to the gym, yes, I did this, but none of this was doing the job. What did the job was me sitting there through all my anxieties and my fears, because I’d never done anything without drugs. So every single thing, I’d really learn to live, because every single thing I’ve done, I’ve been on drugs. So here’s an interesting question.

[00:30:10:21 – 00:30:51:17]When you first start using, right, as it becomes more and more as a regular thing, we start using to deal with our emotions, yes? We have an argument with someone, we use. We have a stressful day, we use. We celebrate, we use. We get a bonus at work, we use. We lose our wallet, we use. It just becomes this emotional response to escape, like an emu. So my question is, being in, how did you cope? How did you deal with things? No longer having this packet wallop that was your escape. Escape. I just deal with things. How? I have tools. I think through it.

[00:30:54:04 – 00:31:31:16]Nothing triggers me. It would never send me back there. When I stopped, I didn’t relapse. I didn’t have that journey of in and out and up and down. And you know, trying and re, I’d used up the Excuse Book. It’s a thousand pages long, and I’d used every one of them, right? And I’d had enough. That was my mantra. That morning in the hospital, I’ve had enough. I do not want to lose anymore. I’m too scared. I’m too, where the place I am now is so abhorrent. There’s no reason to go back. So I know what you’re saying. It’s not, and I didn’t use on Emotion back then. I was using because it was fun.

[00:31:33:08 – 00:31:33:18]Originally.

[00:31:34:23 – 00:31:59:19]Originally, absolutely. When we first started. Of course. But then, you know, the more you use, obviously we realize that maybe we do have underlying issues which we use on, or, you know, to cope with stuff. But no matter what went on for me after that, nothing led me to that. Nothing led me back to that place where I needed, that was never an option. I couldn’t even think, it wouldn’t come into my head immediately. It wouldn’t be like, oh, take cocaine.

[00:32:00:24 – 00:32:12:19]Sorry, take wallop. It wouldn’t happen because I’d locked it up, locked the door, rewired that pathway of, you know, this is an option because it made me feel so bad

[00:32:13:23 – 00:33:08:08]for someone struggling, right? And they’re listening to this and they’re going, Brandon just stopped. Brandon just got to a point where he just stopped. And I agree, and you did. And that’s a fantastic thing that you accomplished, right? However, what I want people to understand is that was a long period of time before you got to that point of feeling that way. You used how many years before you got to that point? For someone who’s thinking, yeah, I’m listening to Brandon. I’m listening to this podcast and I’d like to just stop, but I’m struggling to just stop. How did he just stop, right? I get what you’re saying, but I want people to be very clear that you had a duration of how many years before you reached this point. How many years was that? Well, as I said, eight years earlier. Okay, eight years. I was talking about that. It was eight years, approximately, give or take. And four years was daily. Four years was daily. The last month was a lot. Stuff that you would not even think about doing. You know, like it’s not normal, horrendous.

[00:33:09:10 – 00:33:18:14]When you think of how many days in a year and you multiply it just by four years, and we’re into like 1200 days or in excess of 1200 days of using every single day,

[00:33:20:02 – 00:33:31:06]that you didn’t stop, but then something happened, didn’t it? It happened. And that was what you grabbed hold of. And I think that’s what a lot of people miss. Well, I mean, as I just said, that the moment of grabbing hold of was I was,

[00:33:32:23 – 00:33:53:17]I found out later, look, I went to a doctor called Dr. William Shanahan, who’s my mentor. He worked, he’s now the head of the Priory Group. He was the head of the Charter Nightingale in Lissengrove when I met him. He said, if you walk out of this room, I don’t think you’ll live for the next two weeks. And he said, I’ve never met anyone taking as much wallop and still able to stand up.

[00:33:54:18 – 00:34:03:20]So I’m not saying, look, for people struggling to do, look, I’m very fortunate in the way that my decision was full of intention, but also I was very unwell.

[00:34:04:22 – 00:34:15:00]And it wasn’t just mentally, it wasn’t just the addiction or whatever to the co-gain, it was physically, everything. My body was giving up and I couldn’t live in the pain any longer, I thought I could.

[00:34:16:01 – 00:34:52:17]And I was actually thinking, well, I’m gonna keel over soon anyway, so I might just carry on. Because obviously the fear of living without the drugs, as well as all the in it, it was like, what am I gonna face? If I stop, I’m gonna be in agony pain. I’m gonna be very unwell. I’m gonna feel all sorts of anxieties, whatever’s gonna go on. But yet, it was still enough for me to say, I don’t want this anymore. And I didn’t want it anymore. And that’s, look, I understand, as I said, I work in recovery, I know how difficult it is to do this. I’m very fortunate in a way that I was able to stop like that without going back.

[00:34:54:17 – 00:35:02:18]And I know, look, I know all the catalysts, environment, triggers, external, internal. I know the whole thing, I’ve worked in addiction, right?

[00:35:04:23 – 00:35:17:10]The moment’s gonna be right. The stars have got to align, I don’t know. You get to your moment and it’s decision making. It’s decision making, Elliot. It’s powerful enough. It motivates change.

[00:35:19:22 – 00:35:22:08]I’m sorry, but that’s my take on it, it’s my experience.

[00:35:23:19 – 00:35:35:10]And if they say, in Smart Recovery, which I’m the charity ambassador for the UK, you have a hierarchy of values. How much is your life value? Whatever the things, you have to look outside of yourself

[00:35:36:12 – 00:35:52:15]and you have to see what you have. And look, it’s not ideal. I had a great, did I have a support network? I sort of had a support network. They had no one had no idea what was going on for me because no one had experienced it before. In 96 it wasn’t, you can go out and shout about this stuff because no one knew about it. And anonymous meetings were anonymous.

[00:35:53:24 – 00:37:05:13]So people, look, what I would say to people if they are struggling and they need help, they can get me an Instagram and reach out, speak out, go and find some help because there’s lots of help now. Loads of help. There is. Everyone understands it. There is, I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding out there. The more and more I look at people, there’s a lot of misunderstanding. About what’s happening. That’s my concern. About addiction, I think a lot of people misunderstand the fact that they take addiction as a whole when different substances have different effects, biologically, neurologically, physiologically, and they need to be taken into account with certain people because they can affect you and that can affect the outcome. And therefore I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding within the world. But that’s things that’s being corrected and things like podcasts and books and information out there is making more and more people aware because a lot of people are formulating and following something that was nearly 100 years old, which is slightly outdated 100 years before ADHD, before trauma, before PTSD, before so many neurological conditions that we didn’t know. So I think there’s a lot of misinformation. But what I want to ask is this.

[00:37:06:23 – 00:37:25:00]Giving up the wallet, the packet, and still being in the music industry, which is one of the biggest industries that is absolutely surrounding you. And I know that from that moment you made that decision of that was that. But did your relationship with music change? Did your relationship with being in those environments change? Did your relationship with anybody change because of that?

[00:37:27:11 – 00:37:27:16]No.

[00:37:28:18 – 00:37:30:06]I think I’m very, again,

[00:37:31:14 – 00:37:43:18]suggestions were made to me. Stop DJing, move away, stop your friends, don’t go here, don’t go there. And I went bollocks, I’m doing all that, I’m just not taking drugs.

[00:37:45:04 – 00:37:49:11]Because music’s my passion. My friends aren’t here to kill me.

[00:37:50:11 – 00:39:38:24]Sorry, wrong word. My friends aren’t, you can edit this, right? My friends ain’t here to hurt me. Because look, back then I want to talk more about what I’ve learned now. You was talking about– Paranoia. What’s that? You just sent my friends out there to hurt me. No, no, but I’m saying, look, so I kept my friends. They weren’t there to out there to make me ill. They were there because we partied together. So it was more, it was difficult for them to manage having me around, not doing it, because I was the one who did all of it. And then to have someone, of course it affects, how do we talk, how do we, you know, I’m going out still doing whatever. And Blocko’s over there, not. And he’s in the corner or whatever. But over time, it just all calms down. And it’s just about building new, new pathways and you know, that stuff. So stubbornness, whatever, I said, you’re not stopping me going to play music. And I went straight back to Ibiza, and I played set, I just went back to the hotel. I didn’t go out partying. And that’s the only thing that was changed. And no one paid you with the packet. No, and now I got some, I started earning some money. And I started to turn up for more gigs. And also, yeah, so, it was quite surreal. Look, I get it, you know, and people still were asking me and you know, couldn’t fight the red round the problem. Because it’s never been documented. And then Mixmag did an interview with me when I was in the clinic about addiction. And I don’t actually particularly like that word. I think it’s an old word. It means, as you said, there’s a lot of neurological disorders or words or acronyms for new neurological,

[00:39:41:03 – 00:39:43:16]what do you call them? Diagnoses, whatever.

[00:39:44:19 – 00:39:46:13]I went to do a course on,

[00:39:48:17 – 00:40:10:16]I was gonna become a doctorate, a PhD in existential psychotherapy, right? And the first lesson, the teacher said, there are now 672 different diagnoses of mental health disorders known in the world. And this was 10 years ago. So you can imagine what it is now, how many different, you know, subsections of our brain are analyzed.

[00:40:13:01 – 00:40:16:17]So, you know, addiction to a human,

[00:40:17:20 – 00:41:06:03]instinctual behavior. We like things, we’re gonna do it again. We’re experiential creatures. We wanna experience things that change the way we feel. Because fundamentally, we’re in the world of stress, tension, disorder, which is releasing cortisol all the time. So those moments of escape or dopamine or instant gratification, Amazon, look, this whole thing about it’s genetic, it’s handed down for your parents, bollocks. I’m really sorry to say it for those who believe that. In my experience, give a young child a new mobile phone, try and take it away three weeks later, no chance, withdrawal symptoms, screaming ad dabs, notification, iPads, it’s technology. It’s you created an addict or addictive behaviors. Because it’s making them feel different.

[00:41:07:10 – 00:41:19:19]So clinically, biologically, I think there’s different ways to look at this now. Because, you know, and the struggles that we’re gonna continue to see with technology

[00:41:20:22 – 00:41:32:01]and the world moving so fast are gonna be astounding. I think the argument when it comes to genetic predisposition and environment of this.

[00:41:33:12 – 00:42:35:10]Firstly, it’s medically proven, let’s just take alcohol. I mean, alcohol is not my subject, but let’s just take this. It’s medically proven. There is a genetic marker that people who have blue eyes have a higher percentage likelihood to become alcoholics. That’s a fact, that’s actually a fact you cannot argue with. There are predispositions. Wait, wait, a fact proven till when? Now, to this day. A fact’s still proven. Right, and they’re gonna carry on proving. So the brain doesn’t change, or it does change. Neurology is neuroplastic, right? Which means it can change. And these are, you’re saying these are clinically proven facts. Clinically proven. To this day. Clinically proven research. And that’s gonna continue, is it? It’s clinically proven research. Peer review research. Even if you’ve got blue eyes 10 years down the line and our brains have changed, they’re still gonna become alcoholics. That’s not what I said. To this day. What I’m saying is, to this day, you’re saying that’s been proven, right? What I’m saying is, there is a genetic predisposition that people with blue eyes have a higher likelihood to become alcoholics. Higher likelihood, that’s better. That’s what I said. You didn’t originally. Okay.

[00:42:36:14 – 00:43:57:21]There is a genetic predisposition. You said they’re gonna become alcoholics. They’re more likely. More likely is great. Perfect, I get that. Whoever’s watching this, it’s not edited. You can watch it back and see what I say. It’s more likely to become alcoholics, right? Okay. So that’s a proven fact, right? Now, there are other genetic markers that people say you are higher risk potentially to become addicted to particular substances. Right. Then we could look at things like your upbringing. Okay, so let’s take this. You could, I have patients, you’ve come across people, who have been given the greatest start in life. They’re born into money, they’re born into all the wonders that life offers, and they still develop an addiction to the packet, right? There are other people who have gone through abuse and trauma and poverty and criminality and whatever else. They can become addicted to the packet. So the environment has a definite effect. I think how you grow up, where you grow up, the things that you go through, but I think that potentially genetics are still something we’re looking into, and I think there is potential that there may be more of an influence of genetics, but certainly I agree with you in the environment and the people you’re around and the music, just take your life, right? Think about this.

[00:43:58:23 – 00:44:51:11]You got into music at a young age, right? You’re in an environment where people are using, okay? You’re in an industry that is accepted, almost cool, right? Because I’ve had many DJs and it’s almost like, yeah, I’ve been on the airport and I’ve been racking up a line in the toilet before I get on the plane and I’ve landed in America, I’ve landed in Dubai and I’ve landed in here. I speak to, you know what it’s like, right? There is a Superman approach to that and that environment has an effect on that. So what I’m wondering is once you take that away, was there a time where you doubted yourself or was it like– Of course. Tell me about that, because I want to hear the people, I want to see some vulnerability. Well, listen, ever since I stopped, I’ve been vulnerable. I’ve been learning, I have a daily management team. If I don’t manage my head on a daily basis, it runs away.

[00:44:52:22 – 00:45:22:23]So, I mean, what do you want me to say? I struggle on a daily basis. That’s what I want to hear. Well, I mean, I do, but everyone does. But Brandon, but you’re still clean. Well, of course. And what I want to get people through to is, some people don’t think you have a struggle. Some people see a veneer. And what I want to get to is the fact that I have a struggle. It’s hard daily, it’s hard weekly, it might be hard monthly, but you know what? I get up, I stand up, I move forward and I’m clean.

[00:45:24:05 – 00:46:13:09]And I want people to understand that you also have problems in life. You also have things you deal with and you stay clean. And I think that’s the most important part of people listening. Well, look, I mean, look, I put myself in that environment every week, right? And there’s bound to be some underlying reminders, which I’m not aware of. But even being in that environment, it’s a social, it’s great for a period of time until people start getting drunk or people start taking gear or whatever else or whatever. But I’ve not noticed a load of drugs anymore. I don’t see it because I’m not in it. I don’t see it. I’m not sure, I mean, especially from my demographic, I don’t think we can do it anymore. You grow out of it, we get old. You know what I mean? Listen, I had somebody phoned me the other day, they said that, I had somebody phoned me the other day, wanted to see me as a patient and they were 72 years old. Yeah, well, I mean, who was it? Sorry.

[00:46:15:21 – 00:46:19:18]There was someone who said– Do you want me to go back and say that again?

[00:46:20:22 – 00:46:38:04]Who was it? Someone said about, I mean, even Alan Carr’s smoking book, right? He talks about the woman who has one cigarette a week. And even that’s too much for her. And that drives her mad. So, you know, sorry, I’ve lost track as well. What was it, the first bit?

[00:46:39:08 – 00:46:50:10]Let’s change the subject. If you could go back and tell your younger self something, give a bit of advice to that 15 year old, 13 year old, 18 year old, what would you say?

[00:46:51:10 – 00:46:52:03]Love yourself more.

[00:46:54:03 – 00:46:56:17]Just love Brandon more. You need nurturing.

[00:46:57:24 – 00:46:59:24]Look after your inner child, look after your,

[00:47:01:07 – 00:47:08:02]yeah, the one who comes up every day and has a little moan about everything that’s not going his way, slightly entitled, slightly grandiose, slightly, you know,

[00:47:09:17 – 00:47:21:01]justifying, minimizing, all this stuff that they do. And I’m aware of it. I’m fully in touch with, you know, I know where my stuff comes from. I know what it means.

[00:47:23:16 – 00:47:56:16]I’m very fortunate. I didn’t mean to get, what’s the word? Antagonistic earlier. I just have a certain take on things. I’ve done a lot of learning myself, you know? That’s good. It’s good to share ideas. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, moving forward, this world we live in, I’m a firm believer in the neuroprasticity of our minds. I’m a firm believer in rewiring, I’m a firm believer in breaking neural pathways and joining them again, which, you know, we’re in a really tough place because look, if you think about this, this is one little analogy I think about.

[00:47:57:17 – 00:48:20:19]If we were continually happy, right, without mood swings or daily life, I mean, you live on a mountain top in Switzerland in a chalet with, you know, chocolate bars and fir trees, you’re gonna be fairly happy, I’d imagine. No interaction from the outside world, nothing to wind you up, nothing to, you’ve got some friends, let’s say, you’re not lonely either, all right? So you’ve got everything in ideal.

[00:48:21:23 – 00:48:26:04]Happiness, everything that Abraham Maslow needs for human, you need there, right? Okay. So that’s you.

[00:48:27:06 – 00:48:46:11]Maslow’s hierarchy’s covered, how can you go on? So if you then go down the road to the shops and they say, “Ooh, hello sir, “look at this lovely new pair of jeans “or this lovely Volvo or whatever you’ve got here, “would you care to interest you with this?” You know, I’d really love to, but I’m very happy, I don’t need any of that.

[00:48:47:22 – 00:48:49:20]So we then get into our

[00:48:51:16 – 00:48:52:00]marketing.

[00:48:53:24 – 00:49:02:19]You need, you need, and obviously we live in that, as I said, in that stressful place, we need to change the way we feel. How do we do that? Instant gratification.

[00:49:04:00 – 00:49:09:13]Click Amazon, oh that’ll feel better for two seconds, feel better for five seconds, feel better, oh when’s that coming, when’s that coming?

[00:49:10:14 – 00:49:17:20]You know, we stop shopping, we don’t go out, we don’t, you know, shopping’s a chore now, shopping’s like, get it done and, you know, get back because, you know, it’s difficult.

[00:49:18:20 – 00:50:22:04]And social, social gatherings are difficult. People don’t communicate in the same way, so it’s, there’s a whole range of changes going on. And look, I think for me to grow up in, sorry, in this era, it’s been incredible. We’ve been through, I mean, I’m not, I’m not confessing I could compare to what people in the last century went through because it may have felt the same for them, but with the rapid increase of technology and availability of information, and you know, the worldwide problem with addiction now, or let’s say bad habits for instant gratification and things being available to you right now. So as you say, your relationship with substances, if you say I’m an anesthetic, they’re not gonna go, oh well, I’m as well. And so you’re my cocaine addict or drug addict, you go, oh, do you know what I mean? Stigma’s still there, it’s more accepted because it’s talked about. And that’s the thing, you know, creating awareness still needs to be done because people still struggle massively. Get it, you know what I’m saying?

[00:50:23:13 – 00:51:05:05]I’m so grateful for where I am because I couldn’t think of anything in my world worse than going back there. And I’ve never ever felt differently. I never had that moment of thinking, oh, wouldn’t that just be, never had that. I’ve never ever thought, Christ, wouldn’t it be lovely? Because I went to every bad place with it. So, you know, every single thought you think, would that be good? You go, no, would that be good? No, would that be, no, so. The problem is I think you need to get to that dark, deep place before you realize. Oh, totally, mate, listen, I was there. I didn’t stop till I got to that place. And it was only luckily enough that I had that moment of not traveling, because I was very on the, I was on the last step down into the dungeon.

[00:51:06:10 – 00:51:29:13]I was prepared to go as well. Someone listening to this who’s struggling right now, not where they should go, but who’s having this inner civil war, this fight in their own head, this angel and devil on their shoulders, and they don’t know how they should feel, and they’re listening to this, not advice to where they should go to deal with it. What are you gonna say to them when they’re listening and struggling?

[00:51:31:22 – 00:51:37:05]Well, look, I mean, firstly, I’ve been there. I understand.

[00:51:38:10 – 00:51:43:11]I feel your pain and I really do, because it’s painful, it’s not nice.

[00:51:44:16 – 00:52:31:07]You know, it’s gone beyond the times of being nice. But I think, look, I think if you can get over your fear and reach out and not feel that you’re alone because you’re not, there’s lots of help, as you said. I mean, people like yourself, people like, you know, who work, has worked on themselves and, you know, studied this stuff, just reach out because we’re there, that’s what we’re doing. That’s what we do now. We have that, that’s our job. That’s what we do, you know, that’s what you learn. Out of, you come out the other side of that stuff, you have an empathy. Or you have empathy beforehand, but you have an understanding and I think it’s human nature to wanna help. Because underlying all the other stuff that we live with, we’re connected creatures. So if you feel, see someone struggling,

[00:52:32:18 – 00:52:44:08]what you should do is really go and help them. It’s a lovely attitude to have. Brandon, thank you very much for coming clean with me. I appreciate your time. Elliot, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Legend, Brandon, Block, thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:52:44:08 – 00:52:44:08]