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00:00:00:00 – 00:00:11:22
Speaker 1
Joining me in the studio today is Laurie Haynes. Laurie is a multimillionaire entrepreneur and reality TV star raised by an alcoholic mother. Laurie endured a shortage of abuse and neglect. How do you measure success now?

00:00:12:00 – 00:00:29:11
Speaker 2
I measure success now by how you feel every day and how you leave. I was feeling that version of me that was start making success and money, and I knew I had to leave my old life behind. I’m not going to say my alcohol and drug use stopped it. No way. It got worse because I was had money, I had women, I had cars, watches.

00:00:29:11 – 00:00:35:22
Speaker 2
My friends threw the biggest parties in London. I paid for my bed to buy. It was a party season.

00:00:36:00 – 00:00:41:19
Speaker 1
And you have to look at that and think about, well, do I want to keep my addiction? Is it a problem for me? Is it having a negative consequence or not?

00:00:41:20 – 00:00:56:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, my negative consequence was.

00:00:56:08 – 00:01:19:04
Speaker 1
Hello, I’m Elliott Ward, addiction specialist. And welcome to another episode of Coming Clean with me. Joining me in the studio today is Laurie Haynes. Laurie is a multimillionaire entrepreneur and reality TV star engaged to former Towie celebrity Ferne McCann. Together they star in the hit ITV show My Family and Me. But beneath the glitz and glamor lies a harrowing past.

00:01:19:09 – 00:01:29:20
Speaker 1
Raised by an alcoholic mother, Laurie endured a challenge of abuse and neglect. Perhaps this was the catalyst to Laurie’s addictions. So let’s find out. Welcome, Laurie. Thanks for joining me. How?

00:01:29:22 – 00:01:30:03
Speaker 2
I’m.

00:01:30:06 – 00:01:38:15
Speaker 1
I’m good. My pleasure. So, Laurie, tell me, what was your first childhood recollection growing up on a council estate in Portsmouth?

00:01:38:17 – 00:01:49:23
Speaker 2
Every time I get asked that question, I always to try my utmost best to cast my mind back as far as I can possibly go. And each time, the response is never the same.

00:01:50:03 – 00:01:50:14
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:01:50:15 – 00:02:18:17
Speaker 2
Because it really depends what’s going on in my life at the time when I’m asked the question of how far, I can actually get back to sometimes I can get to the age of around 5 or 6. Sometimes. Usually it’s around the age of 10 or 11. The answer to that, I don’t know why, but for me, really, it started probably around the age.

00:02:18:19 – 00:02:42:18
Speaker 2
If I could just sort of go back as far as I can, the age of about 7 or 8. Junior school, where looking back at the younger version of me now being the person I am now, and I look back at that, that younger boy that that’s more Laurie. I can see the emotional sadness that he felt.

00:02:42:20 – 00:03:08:15
Speaker 2
And usually it would come out in school because there was probably people that could listen and observe. So that would have been the best place for him to express how he was feeling at that time. Although maybe he didn’t know or understand what he was feeling. And that’s usually the place that the the emotional.

00:03:08:17 – 00:03:22:06
Speaker 2
How do I say it? The the then the the lack of emotional stability would come out in school per dominantly. And that’s where I would find life most difficult. Okay. And most challenging.

00:03:22:08 – 00:03:26:10
Speaker 1
Okay. And to when did you start drinking alcohol?

00:03:26:12 – 00:03:53:02
Speaker 2
Alcohol was probably probably around the age of like 13, 14. I always sort of hung around with the bigger kids. The cool guys insert commas. And it start off sort of with, sleepovers at different friends houses or pretend sleepovers and just sort of all nighters in the street. And we would just, yeah, just drink whatever we could usually.

00:03:53:08 – 00:03:55:19
Speaker 2
What’s it called? Was it white lightning?

00:03:55:21 – 00:03:57:06
Speaker 1
White lightning this side?

00:03:57:08 – 00:03:58:11
Speaker 2
I don’t know if you’ve been around any more.

00:03:58:14 – 00:04:04:08
Speaker 1
I dunno, but some reason I’ve got this stereotypical image of people sitting on a park bench drinking white lightning.

00:04:04:10 – 00:04:25:20
Speaker 2
Well, that’s what it was always used for because, you know, it is a drink that’s almost affordable to many. It was like 1 pound something. A bottle back then. So we would buy a three liter bottle or a handful of those usually wait outside the shops for the right cause an uncle, friend of a friend, someone that knew you’d go in the shop and get it for you.

00:04:25:22 – 00:04:49:17
Speaker 2
And then we would sort of hide it in our jackets, take it to the park, away from the wardens and the police, and we would just drink it. And if we were a bit strapped for cash in, wherever I was, we would just spin in circles and drink it and just try and sort of everyone would chip in together and buy whatever cheap drugs we could buy, usually like a pound and ecstasy pill, and we would smash it up and sprinkling all the bottles and just anything we can really just sort of get as high as possible.

00:04:49:19 – 00:04:55:05
Speaker 1
How did that how did that escalate as you get older in terms of your alcohol consumption and your drug use?

00:04:55:07 – 00:05:09:16
Speaker 2
So I was never dependent on drugs or alcohol. So I can confidently, say that the and the drug thing for me, really, I only did it when I was drunk. So,

00:05:09:18 – 00:05:11:06
Speaker 1
So alcohol was your gateway?

00:05:11:08 – 00:05:35:08
Speaker 2
Alcohol was the gateway for me. And I think grown up in the 90s and around parents that, drank most days. So my stepfather was an alcoholic. He died from alcoholism. My mother still sort of proclaims she’s not an alcoholic. Because she won’t open a bottle of wine to around 3:00. That’s a standard and a rule that she has.

00:05:35:14 – 00:05:55:10
Speaker 2
It used to be 6:00, and it sort of got sort of went down the timescale. And because she doesn’t fall on the floor and urinate herself and she can still have some what she would classes function or although her function in is completely different to how I see someone functioning. So she would she would claim she’s not an alcoholic, so it’s debatable.

00:05:55:11 – 00:06:14:09
Speaker 2
She a functioning alcoholic? Is she an alcoholic or is she someone that just likes to, continue to suppress her emotions in the use of alcohol? So, three things we could sort of label her with there. But, you know, I’m not here to label anybody. So, so for me, it was more the thing that everybody did, right?

00:06:14:09 – 00:06:21:03
Speaker 2
We, we did whatever we did in the week. And we look forward to the weekend just to get, as high as possible.

00:06:21:08 – 00:06:22:18
Speaker 1
It was every weekend.

00:06:22:20 – 00:06:29:22
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Every weekend without fail. Friday and Saturday. For many years, not every weekend from the age of 13, obviously.

00:06:30:02 – 00:06:32:16
Speaker 1
But from the age of like in your in your late teens.

00:06:32:16 – 00:06:52:07
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. From 15 I’d say from solidly from 15 when I was working because I, I got kicked out of many schools. But my final sort of you done was, was about 14 ish, which when I was smoking cannabis every day, I smoked cannabis every day for about a year and a half, from 14 ish to about 15 ish.

00:06:52:09 – 00:06:54:18
Speaker 1
How did you afford that?

00:06:54:20 – 00:07:21:05
Speaker 2
Doing whatever I could, I would, lots of different things, really. What I do, stealing clothes, different types of things. It was usually funded as well by the older guys. Okay. So those guys would look after me. I was always like, little sorry, little loss of always. Or the older guys my age would be jealous that I would be with the older guys, but I just sort of fitted in.

00:07:21:05 – 00:07:26:15
Speaker 1
So, so you, you, you smoked weed with the people around you, the older guys around you. And how did that progress on?

00:07:26:17 – 00:07:33:00
Speaker 2
So I got to a point where I didn’t want to smoke weed or it was it was called puff.

00:07:33:02 – 00:07:34:04
Speaker 1
Puff puff puff.

00:07:34:04 – 00:07:40:10
Speaker 2
Puff. Yes. So it was called puff. We would that was cheaper than weed. I couldn’t really afford weed all the time, but. Puff. Yeah.

00:07:40:12 – 00:07:41:17
Speaker 1
You know, there was a difference between them.

00:07:41:19 – 00:08:07:21
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, the price comparison was okay. Yeah. So I then what? Oh, no. Sorry. How did I fold it? So I opened, a bucket shed, which was in the bottom of my garden. Of my mum knew it was there, so I turned two, three bottles of a gauze, socket gauze into a bucket so people would come round, close your bucket, and they’d have to do me one.

00:08:07:23 – 00:08:26:05
Speaker 2
So you burn it, burn the puff, suck, suck it through. And you stoned for hours. So they would do that. Bongs it like a bong. It’s a special glass of water. One. It’s, Oh, it makes me my back. Go just even thinking about it. So usually I would get high from that, and people would always come to my house.

00:08:26:05 – 00:08:30:16
Speaker 2
So because we were allowed to smoke it there and other places you could a lot of people’s parents still didn’t know.

00:08:30:18 – 00:08:33:23
Speaker 1
Is that because your mum was drinking that she didn’t mind?

00:08:34:01 – 00:08:54:21
Speaker 2
Not, not not the drink. Just more probably like her principles were a lot, lower then, you know, then they then most. I mean, we grew up in a working class environment, although it was a council estate. Everybody worked. Whether you were a local builder or you worked in the school part time, I’d say 80% of the council estate worked.

00:08:54:23 – 00:09:09:23
Speaker 2
So, so a lot of my friends parents were still fairly strict. Like, you could come home and have a punch up in there. They’d go round and knock the door and try and have a punch up with that. Like. But if you said, oh, I’ve been smoking weed today, you’d get a smack, right? So they couldn’t go that far.

00:09:09:23 – 00:09:13:17
Speaker 1
What do you think’s better the way your mum was or the way they were?

00:09:13:19 – 00:09:22:06
Speaker 2
Well, it’s a hard. It depends what Laurie, you’re asking Laurie today, if it was my children or the Laurie back then.

00:09:22:07 – 00:09:24:21
Speaker 1
Okay. I would ask you, Laurie, today, if it’s your children.

00:09:24:23 – 00:09:37:09
Speaker 2
Laurie today would ask my child or children, whichever one it would have been at that point, what they’re looking for of an outcome to what they want to try it. Is it because they’re curious?

00:09:37:11 – 00:09:38:18
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:09:38:20 – 00:09:53:13
Speaker 2
And I would have a conversation with them, and I would hope that my actions from what I do now, daily until that point, would really help them reconsider, you know, if.

00:09:53:13 – 00:09:57:12
Speaker 1
Your mum or dad has had that conversation with you, do you think you would have reconsidered smoking weed?

00:09:57:12 – 00:10:16:01
Speaker 2
No. And the reason being early is because my children haven’t had the upbringing that I did. So we’re complete different people. We experienced completely different upbringing. So the way I perceived and my perception of the world is, is and I hope to be completely different to how they would see things. So they see me trying in the gym.

00:10:16:01 – 00:10:25:07
Speaker 2
They come in there often, play with the weights whilst I’m training. They watch me in the plunge pool every day, the sauna, they, we talk to them about health, nutrition. We do little quizzes with them.

00:10:25:13 – 00:10:27:11
Speaker 1
So, you know, they.

00:10:27:12 – 00:10:55:14
Speaker 2
Six and a half my stepdaughter, my son’s seven and a half and my baby goes, 11 months. So, you know, even my baby girl, when she was a baby, I’d have her in the doona. Sitting there was I’ll be lifting the weight and she’d be laughing. So I never saw that. So I can only sort of elaborate on my perception of how I think they may see me and the world when they become to the age they might want to explore certain things.

00:10:55:16 – 00:11:24:18
Speaker 2
However, that might change. You don’t know how how they’re goaded throughout school and throughout, you know, college, university. That’s the step and road they should take. I hope to think that they’re strong minded characters, and they would say no, but I’ll think I’d be very naive and in somewhat stupid to believe that 90 or percent. And again, that’s my own statistic, would try at least once some kind of drug form.

00:11:25:00 – 00:11:54:12
Speaker 2
But I hope that we’ve got such an open relationship that they would tell me before or even after. And Isaac said, like, I will try anything in my power and means to, you know, I won’t tell them off and make them feel like they can’t talk to me. But just to understand what actually happens from a psychological perspective, you know, and, and the reasoning behind why is it curiosity or is it are you trying to suppress something?

00:11:54:15 – 00:12:01:03
Speaker 1
So when they get to that age, you’re hoping that the way you’ve brought them up, that they’re going to be able to have a conversation with you, which you weren’t able to have a conversation with your mum.

00:12:01:03 – 00:12:03:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Or your dad. Yeah. Exactly that.

00:12:03:15 – 00:12:12:19
Speaker 1
And your mother had a succession of male partners who were also drinkers. What relationships to you formed with these? Stepdad. What did you for them?

00:12:12:19 – 00:12:36:07
Speaker 2
Well, the last guy. I wouldn’t even dare honor him with the title of stepdad. He was an absolute scumbag. So, there were. So it is quite hard to piece a timeline, but I’ll try my best to articulate it for you, but you might have to catch it certain moments, because it does become a little bit puzzled due to lack of memory when it comes to that subject.

00:12:36:07 – 00:12:59:09
Speaker 2
So the first we’ll call him Guy one that was married to my mother. He sort of funded holidays at a mortgage, somewhat a normal house, but she didn’t give an account to stay at that point up until the age of six. And I called him dad. I had his last name, my brother. That was his biological father.

00:12:59:11 – 00:13:21:16
Speaker 2
My mother cheated on him with a with a guy. He left and he knelt down on his knees and he said to me, I love you so much. Some things have happened. I’m going, but I’ll try and see you soon. Not the exact words, but in a roundabout way. He gave me his, Premier League football sticker book at that time, which he loved, and it was a thing we had.

00:13:21:18 – 00:13:39:08
Speaker 2
He walked out the door and took my younger brother with him. The deal was, I don’t know how I even come to that deal. It’s like buying a car. It’s ludicrous. He could take my younger brother with him to. He didn’t want him to live in the house without the with him being this. Obviously they he knew a lot more that was going on.

00:13:39:08 – 00:13:52:04
Speaker 2
Right. They used to fight. She, she stabbed him, I think, once or twice. So she she had a bit of a violent history. So he left. Gone, never to be seen again for me. My brother went with him.

00:13:52:05 – 00:13:55:02
Speaker 1
So grew up in a lot of violent abuse then.

00:13:55:04 – 00:14:16:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. That brings me to the next guy. So he moved in almost. They could have literally carried each other’s bags out. I mean, it was very close from, from, from my recollection. And, you know, I think it was fine at the start. Very nice guy. He was a window cleaner, so he always worked cash in hand.

00:14:16:08 – 00:14:42:21
Speaker 2
And, also of, trying to look back at the young glory. Now, I was desperate for anyone, so I sort of took him on because my, my stepfather, a figure, well, dad figure left, so he was the next best thing, and he would give me money like a couple of pounds because he worked cash in hand and he used to drink probably five, six, eight cans a night.

00:14:42:21 – 00:15:04:00
Speaker 2
Normally Stella. And it wasn’t violent for the first year, from what I can remember. And then they would argue and fight as time would go on. And I’ve seen him with blood over his face. My mum tried stabbing him and he smacked her and, we had the police come around, arrest him, and certain things would go on, but it was never that bad.

00:15:04:02 – 00:15:21:17
Speaker 2
And again, I’d have to hold that comment that bad because for someone that’s listening to this would go, oh my God, that sounds terrible. But the old lawyer, because we’re talking about the old law, he goes, it was not that bad because I grew up thinking that was normal. So but I can catch myself and self-reflect quickly, which is something I’ve learned.

00:15:21:19 – 00:15:57:07
Speaker 2
So, he was there, a big drinker. And then after, about two years, they had a baby, another another child. He then left. My mum kicked him out. He couldn’t cope with not being with her in the family. So his drinking problem became a lot worse. And he eventually drunk himself to death. I took my younger brother, their child, his biological child, to the hospital to hold his hand, to take his last breaths, which was quite a, difficult thing for me, to do, because I felt guilt and resentment.

00:15:57:10 – 00:16:24:21
Speaker 2
Resentment towards my mother, guilt towards my brother. Because he didn’t quite know what the whys. Why would the alcohol kill him? What was going on? He was very young, and I always remember picturing his face in the corridor of the hospital. And my younger brother said to me, because we were there for a, long time. He said to me, bro, before he dies, can you please wake me up if I fall asleep?

00:16:24:23 – 00:16:40:06
Speaker 2
And he was about seven years old. So he’s got, you know, his own problems and traumas and stuff in life that he’s had to go for as well. But, so. Yeah. So. So that happened to him. My mum got with, a few guys in between, but I never, really, never really met the, the.

00:16:40:06 – 00:16:42:22
Speaker 1
Upbringing through multiple stepdad.

00:16:42:23 – 00:16:59:18
Speaker 2
Multiple multiple I never met these other guys and they were on and off. And I sort of disowned my mum at that point. I was ashamed of, Thought she was sort of a bit scum, a bit of scum, really. And then she got this one guy, who seemed normal for the first four months, because they always do.

00:16:59:18 – 00:17:17:01
Speaker 2
And then their narcissistic traits start to come out because they struggle to hide it. So I started to get in contact with, we were chatting a bit more, and, you know, we sort of got back on track. But then them to become very toxic and violent, and they would fight a lot. And she would call me.

00:17:17:03 – 00:17:25:06
Speaker 2
I went round there one day, beat the life out of him. Got myself a little bit of trouble.

00:17:25:08 – 00:17:27:04
Speaker 1
So it was a volatile upbringing, a.

00:17:27:06 – 00:18:00:03
Speaker 2
Very, very, very volatile upbringing. Yeah. He would often strangle my younger brother. He put lights in my mum’s eyes. He hit me with a hammer. With an iron. And he was the first person in in in my life that caused me to do something that is beyond the person I was or am. So in order to protect my family in that situation because I thought he was going to kill us, he was very psychotic.

00:18:00:05 – 00:18:38:19
Speaker 2
I grabbed the knife and stabbed him, and I almost lost my freedom at that point, it got dropped from all the way down to domestic violence and no further action, because the police had 36 account records of domestic violence for him. They knew his past and stuff. So I was very lucky and fortunate that I didn’t go to jail and the, the one of the, one of the that’s one of the biggest key factors behind the reason I don’t have a ratio of my mum now is because whilst I was whilst it all went on, she sat by the hospital bed fending for him and I got kicked out the house and was made homeless

00:18:38:19 – 00:19:00:10
Speaker 2
at 16 and I was basically the council estate pass around. They’ve just looked after everyone and they moved out of the council estate down to the local town, in a different council house and they carried on their lives, although it tamed him for a little while. Until the second part, which was the beating I mentioned, because one was before the other, after a few years.

00:19:00:10 – 00:19:20:07
Speaker 2
And maybe you’re thinking, why go back and do that if you had no relationship? It was my brother called me screaming down the phone. So, when they kick the door off and battered him and and that’s two instances which things have happened, which was at no fault of my own. I shouldn’t have ever inherited any of the traumas.

00:19:20:08 – 00:19:24:15
Speaker 2
But I’m someone who’s far from victim mentality.

00:19:24:17 – 00:19:32:15
Speaker 1
So let’s just go back to, started the puffin and the alcohol. How did. And it was every weekend. And how did that progressed to using cocaine.

00:19:32:17 – 00:19:51:06
Speaker 2
So I was in the pubs around 15. And when I sort of come off of the the puffin, the weed, when it wasn’t really for me, as I said, it wasn’t really my thing, but it was just something I did. Getting in the pubs around the older guys, I was working cash in hand so I could get in all the pubs, which was great.

00:19:51:08 – 00:19:55:18
Speaker 2
And just. Yeah, just that feeling of being with older people and.

00:19:55:22 – 00:19:57:05
Speaker 1
And started using cocaine.

00:19:57:07 – 00:20:07:17
Speaker 2
And then they would give me cocaine where I was the youngest, they didn’t really ask for money. They just give it to me. And those were adults, 30 year old, 40 year old males, like.

00:20:07:17 – 00:20:15:08
Speaker 1
So you’re a young lad in the pub with people your age. Yeah. They giving you cocaine? Yeah. And then how did that progressed to you using yourself.

00:20:15:10 – 00:20:40:10
Speaker 2
So I would then get to the point where I was on enough money. My routine would be wage packet, 20 sovereign cigarets. Depends how good my wages were that week or it was off the local, fag dealer. You’d get a packet of camel, whatever for £2. Then fags, eight cans of beer, half a gram of coke.

00:20:40:16 – 00:20:53:07
Speaker 2
That would be more sort of a Friday night thing. Okay. But if I had a good week, obviously that would have waited till later. I’d go in the pub. So get a quick, get a gram of coke delivered to the pub. I’d be in there and we’d all share or we’d all chip in and get a bag together.

00:20:53:09 – 00:20:56:23
Speaker 2
And that was pretty much my weekend lifestyle for me.

00:20:56:23 – 00:20:58:03
Speaker 1
Was that a Friday? On a Saturday?

00:20:58:07 – 00:21:07:16
Speaker 2
Friday and Saturday? Yeah, that was my weekend lifestyle for about probably 15, 16, 17, 18, three, four years.

00:21:07:18 – 00:21:08:06
Speaker 1
How many years?

00:21:08:09 – 00:21:09:20
Speaker 2
About 3 to 4 years.

00:21:09:23 – 00:21:23:03
Speaker 1
3 to 4 years. Every weekend. Drinking alcohol, using cocaine every weekend. At what point did you realize it was a problem? Because you said at the very beginning I didn’t have an addiction. Yeah, but I would say that somebody uses every Friday and every Saturday has an addiction.

00:21:23:03 – 00:21:36:21
Speaker 2
As an addiction. Yeah. So again, that’s why I said, like, when I’m, when I’m cast my mind back to how young I was, which was your original first question, I go back into that, tone and terminology of it’s not an addiction, but if you asked Laurie now.

00:21:36:22 – 00:21:41:11
Speaker 1
I said, we’re looking at you now. Looking back. Yeah, you could see that was an addiction. It was.

00:21:41:11 – 00:21:59:15
Speaker 2
It was it was a very bad habit or the lower end of the addiction scale because I could, if I had a holiday booked in or something that was, which would help with my dopamine on the Monday or the Tuesday, I wouldn’t go to the pub on the front. I was like, I’d save my money if I.

00:21:59:15 – 00:22:00:12
Speaker 1
Didn’t go on a holiday.

00:22:00:13 – 00:22:17:02
Speaker 2
If I had a holiday booked in, or if I had a festival booked in or something, or a party on the Sunday. Let’s say I wouldn’t drink on the Friday or Saturday because I’d save my money. So an addiction is. No, I see it as something that you can’t control when, when you use. Whereas I was in control.

00:22:17:02 – 00:22:29:13
Speaker 2
Because if I had a bad week, then a lot of money, which meant a lot. My friends might not have done it. We’re all in the same trade. We wouldn’t. We wouldn’t buy cocaine. We’d probably just go and buy, a crate of beers from Tesco’s because you got it cheap.

00:22:29:13 – 00:22:35:07
Speaker 1
But that’s your addiction being controlled by your financial ability. Yeah. Oh, you’d have more money than you would have used.

00:22:35:07 – 00:22:36:04
Speaker 2
It, you know what I mean? Yeah.

00:22:36:05 – 00:22:52:01
Speaker 1
So possibly you had an addiction. I would say as a psychologist, you had an addiction but didn’t see it as an addiction at the time because you saw people who were a lot worse. But it was every weekend and every weekend for a good few years. There was certainly addiction in that part of your life. Maybe it wasn’t as bad of an addiction as someone else.

00:22:52:01 – 00:22:53:15
Speaker 1
Maybe it wasn’t as frequently as somebody else.

00:22:53:15 – 00:22:54:11
Speaker 2
Financially controlled.

00:22:54:11 – 00:22:56:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, fine. Financially controlled you. That’s what did it, right.

00:22:56:20 – 00:23:17:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I believe that’s why, That. Yeah, it was, it was if I look back, he’s even saying it because as I said, like I do lots of different podcasts and different talks and stuff, and I don’t really go that deep into certain things at certain times. And I’ve never really spoke about how often I would have done that.

00:23:17:14 – 00:23:32:17
Speaker 2
And you just made me actually think, Jesus. Yeah, I like, it was probably every weekend because there would have been some times where over the weekend off and I would have been like, call that a drink in ages. I haven’t been out in a while. It would have been two weeks.

00:23:32:19 – 00:23:33:18
Speaker 1
Like exactly.

00:23:33:23 – 00:23:34:17
Speaker 2
It’s crazy.

00:23:34:17 – 00:23:50:23
Speaker 1
I mean, if you look at the definition of an addiction law, it’s like the definition of addiction is a behavior, a compulsion to a behavior, a substance that has a temporary relief, that has a negative consequence. That’s actually the definition of an addiction. And if you think about that, that’s where you were every week.

00:23:50:23 – 00:24:00:11
Speaker 2
Yep yep yep. And I’ve still got friends. Well you could just call it say associates who don’t speak that still do that. And they have done that since that age.

00:24:00:13 – 00:24:02:04
Speaker 1
So my question is how did you get out of it.

00:24:02:05 – 00:24:21:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So for me, I then when I was homeless and a few of the families then did for me, my friend’s dad sat me down and although he had a bit of a gambling addiction that I know now, but not so much then, he sat me down and said, look, you’re going to be going to prison at some point in the near future for what’s happened.

00:24:21:11 – 00:24:40:04
Speaker 2
You can stay here or at this house with this other family that took me in. I’ll help fund it for you until that point. But you need to come and work with me. That’s got to be a rule. So he took me to work and we started buying jewelry, and I quickly saw the money he was making.

00:24:40:04 – 00:24:42:08
Speaker 1
And he took you under his wing to help you with your addictions.

00:24:42:08 – 00:24:48:15
Speaker 2
I’m not my addiction. So you have to help me with, getting out of that. That habit, that cycle.

00:24:48:15 – 00:24:49:04
Speaker 1
Okay?

00:24:49:06 – 00:25:13:05
Speaker 2
Because he knew that I had, I believe now. And they were asking this question. He knew I had the tendencies to continue the problem with the people, being my mother and the father. So, maybe there was conversations with the police behind the scenes, the local, not social workers. They were like a local ward and community office that knew everything about everyone.

00:25:13:05 – 00:25:32:06
Speaker 2
Basically the neighborhood, I believe they had conversations. And he was like, look, I’ll take him in, let me look after him. I’ll get him to work. And I think he knew by taking me away. We used to do long, long stints of work in a way he knew I wouldn’t be drinking alcohol, taking drugs, hanging around with the boys that would, that they were.

00:25:32:06 – 00:25:49:05
Speaker 2
They were criminals. So he knew. Why take me away from those guys? I could potentially live to the potential that he saw in me and keep out of trouble, because I feel like he maybe just felt some kind of connection that he wanted or had to look after me, because I always just stayed. And they saw me as a son.

00:25:49:05 – 00:26:04:12
Speaker 2
But I’ll dip in and out of their lives, and other people’s lives are always moved around. I was always like, everyone knows Laurie. I was always everywhere, and I believe he just took me under his wing, maybe felt sorry for me. I don’t know, maybe one day I could sit down and ask him. So he’s like, you got to come to work with me.

00:26:04:12 – 00:26:16:02
Speaker 2
I had no other job. I had to at that point, so I saw the money he was making. I really enjoyed what was going on and I then got put on tag for the for the offense.

00:26:16:04 – 00:26:18:03
Speaker 1
And the offense of hitting the guy.

00:26:18:03 – 00:26:37:19
Speaker 2
Was it that, no. Stubborn, stubborn, stubborn seven that the battering was years later? So. So I could no longer work away. So I’m sitting there racking my brain, thinking I’ve had this bit of income. I’ve been out of my social circles. I’ve sort of distance myself from these guys. A few of them were in jail at that point.

00:26:37:19 – 00:26:56:07
Speaker 2
Anyway, what can I do now to make money myself? So I bought a pushbike off of some Gumtree or market place where it was then, and I used the wages that I had, and I asked him if he’d lend me some money, and he did, and I used, I did the business that he was doing around the country.

00:26:56:07 – 00:27:13:14
Speaker 2
I did it locally, ride my bike. I used his business cards and I managed to do the business. I started making a few thousand, quickly came to realize that I could get more money for for for the jewelry and some stuff if I went and done it myself. And sort of I outgrew him, which he was fine with.

00:27:13:14 – 00:27:41:21
Speaker 2
And and that was really the point where I made my first light. I think like 5 or 10,000 and I then quickly my, my dopamine receptors and everything around, around the feeling that I wanted to feel inside came from the money and the element of success. If you measure success by finances, right. And I did at that time.

00:27:41:23 – 00:27:45:18
Speaker 2
So I was then a new reformed lawyer. I had a new identity.

00:27:45:18 – 00:27:47:14
Speaker 1
How do you measure success now?

00:27:47:16 – 00:27:55:08
Speaker 2
I measure success now by how you feel every day and how you leave. I was feeling and that for me is is way more important than money.

00:27:55:08 – 00:28:02:02
Speaker 1
Do you think you strive for that financial success and materialistic things because of not having them growing up?

00:28:02:04 – 00:28:23:20
Speaker 2
An element of that was there now. Not so, because I gave up a lot of my financial income to focus on my new business. Sheryl, a mental health app. And I know many that would never have given up the income that I had in the businesses that I had to do something new, let alone something that was costing me, hundreds of thousands that I’ve put into this company.

00:28:23:22 – 00:29:01:19
Speaker 2
So that, for me was a real conversational point to say money doesn’t control me anymore. But back to the start of what you just first mentioned. There. There will always be numbers. How often? Five years of therapy. And I always, always educate myself. But there will always be that element of the the fight or flight and, and the, the fear element of of losing success because the fear element of losing success for me, my my reset default position, although it is probably wouldn’t be that now because I’m engaged and.

00:29:01:19 – 00:29:02:22
Speaker 1
Being happy.

00:29:03:00 – 00:29:23:03
Speaker 2
Would be more about my. My default position would be back in Portsmouth in the Council of State with nothing. Because before I met Ferne and had stability and we were engaged. We had a family before that, before Ferne, if I fucked up, there was no one behind me to catch me. There was no going back to my daddy’s house, get my bed made, getting dinners made, getting supported.

00:29:23:05 – 00:29:46:16
Speaker 2
There was nothing, there’s nothing. So if I mess up, I have got no one and they will always feel deep down that it’s there. Always be that scared me there. But I also believe from a positive perspective that that’s what keeps me going and keeps me motivated. As I said, like to give up a good income to create something new.

00:29:46:18 – 00:30:09:19
Speaker 2
That’s a big jump from left to right. That was a huge jump. And and that for me was the element that I said that I’m in control here. That’s what I’m in control here because I’m building something that serves me purpose and passion. And every person that I help and speak to. And I’ve stopped people from from self-harm, people from taking their lives, that brings me way more fulfillment.

00:30:09:21 – 00:30:12:10
Speaker 2
They’re making a pound. No.

00:30:12:12 – 00:30:19:08
Speaker 1
And what what was the strategies that you dealt with yourself to deal with your mental health when you got negative? Press?

00:30:19:10 – 00:30:35:16
Speaker 2
So that was it was a new, new, new, new era for me. Right? Stepping into the public eye, I come at a bit of a shock, bit of a bang for someone who’s never really watched TV, reality TV especially, I mean, the last TV show I watched back in the day would have been EastEnders when I was a kid.

00:30:35:16 – 00:30:36:00
Speaker 2
Right?

00:30:36:00 – 00:30:37:20
Speaker 1
You don’t want you on reality TV now.

00:30:37:20 – 00:30:38:16
Speaker 2
Does that sound bad?

00:30:38:17 – 00:30:39:03
Speaker 1
I don’t know.

00:30:39:03 – 00:30:40:01
Speaker 2
What I mean. I mean, it was.

00:30:40:06 – 00:30:42:02
Speaker 1
Just when you said it was just curious. Do you watch.

00:30:42:02 – 00:31:09:08
Speaker 2
Yourself? No. I’m any. And even when I have to watch the pre pilot version to approve it, I don’t even watch that. Right. Sometimes I wish I bloody things. I could have stopped a few scenes, but anyway, like, you know it’s, it’s that it was that that version of me that was started making success and money and I knew I had to leave my old life behind and it opened up, I would say those new neural pathways that that could see the version of me and the new identity that I wanted to have.

00:31:09:10 – 00:31:26:10
Speaker 2
And that’s when I left Portsmouth. I moved to London and met new people and saw new things. I saw outside of the castle walls of Portsmouth. Right. And I saw I could then sort of visualize the future, me and what I wanted in life. And I realized that I was living in such a suppressed environment that it had to stop.

00:31:26:10 – 00:31:48:05
Speaker 2
Now, I’m not going to say my alcohol and drug use stopped dead. No way. Got worse because I was had money, I had women, I had cars, watches. My friends threw the biggest parties in London. I’d be, for my part, the boy. We lived in the same block together. It was a party season and I would validate validate my party lifestyle.

00:31:48:05 – 00:32:25:13
Speaker 2
Let’s let’s put that as the movie title by my success. Well, I’m making money I don’t have. I don’t have an addiction. I love to go out and party because it made me feel good, and it’s taken me all the way through my 20s to the age of 33 now, and it’s only been the last. I’ve been dry now for six months or so, and it’s taken me to become dry, to realize that although I’ve done many years of therapy and things wouldn’t trigger me, and I can control my emotions and the outcomes of my actions and and the wins and the whys in the House.

00:32:25:14 – 00:32:34:17
Speaker 2
But big. But but but I still would have a few beers on the Thursday, in the Friday and Saturday by a few. I’m talking 1 or 2.

00:32:34:19 – 00:32:37:02
Speaker 1
So,

00:32:37:04 – 00:32:48:16
Speaker 2
Again, was that an addiction? Was it a habit? There was nothing better than getting to a Thursday evening, having burger night, and having a couple of beers with the message one Friday night, or what a long week you feel a bit crap.

00:32:48:22 – 00:32:50:19
Speaker 1
Do you think it was an addiction?

00:32:50:21 – 00:32:53:08
Speaker 2
No, I didn’t think it was an addiction.

00:32:53:08 – 00:32:55:17
Speaker 1
Do you think it’s an addiction?

00:32:55:19 – 00:33:09:13
Speaker 2
Hey, I’m going to. I’m gonna do. I sit here and willingly blind myself and act in denial, or do I accept and and and and agree that it was a bad.

00:33:09:15 – 00:33:18:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Let’s change the question. Let’s change the question around. You’ve been sober six months. Yeah. Have you found it easy? Challenging it have been so much more difficult.

00:33:18:12 – 00:33:24:20
Speaker 2
Very easy. Good. And I don’t I don’t even think about it now at all.

00:33:24:20 – 00:33:31:07
Speaker 1
If it was only a couple of drinks previously that you didn’t classify as an addiction, what made you decide that you couldn’t drink it all?

00:33:31:09 – 00:33:44:00
Speaker 2
I was fed up of feeling bloated, always fed up of not being able to say no to the junk food after a couple of beers, because the beers made me feel happy lot.

00:33:44:00 – 00:33:46:09
Speaker 1
I mean, the beers made you escape there.

00:33:46:14 – 00:33:47:10
Speaker 2
Escape like.

00:33:47:10 – 00:33:47:20
Speaker 1
Addiction.

00:33:47:22 – 00:34:00:04
Speaker 2
There we go. Just like the. And it always goes back to that point. And as I said, like I look up and it’s still yeah, it’s hard. I find it hard to accept.

00:34:00:06 – 00:34:01:19
Speaker 1
I think you find it hard to just admit it.

00:34:01:20 – 00:34:04:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, you’re right. And I always skirt around it.

00:34:04:01 – 00:34:07:11
Speaker 1
So I see you have good. But I’m pressing you a bit. Pressing.

00:34:07:11 – 00:34:11:17
Speaker 2
You know you are. I think towards the end of the podcast, you might, we might, we might hear me accept it. We’ll say.

00:34:11:19 – 00:34:26:02
Speaker 1
Well, if you want to change, I think it’s a great place to start. It is, it is because six months sober is great. And, you know, congratulations on that. But it’s early days. Yeah, right. You know, when you’re looking at five years, ten years, 15 years, 20 years, I think sometimes you have to look at yourself and you have to accept it.

00:34:26:02 – 00:34:50:02
Speaker 1
You know what? Okay. I’m not as bad as John, Paul, Sarah and Jane, but for me, I’m worse than I want to be. Yeah, and there’s a problem. And if I admit that I’ve got an addiction. Addiction doesn’t mean I’m sitting in a park binge drinking. You know, I’m in love with it, right? It doesn’t necessarily mean that, you know, I see a lot of extremely, extremely successful people who have cocaine habits, alcohol addiction.

00:34:50:02 – 00:35:13:18
Speaker 1
I see people that have jobs that just earn normal wages. I see people from with you, a plasterer to a CEO of a huge corporation. I don’t think addiction has an ability to to choose which and when. It just takes forever. Yeah. And I think you are certainly in addiction and I think there were circumstances through your childhood, through growing up in the way you did, that is very clear for many people that we end up looking for a coping strategy.

00:35:13:22 – 00:35:40:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. And the coping strategies, the only thing that I would say is different in those individuals that you mentioned. And again, financially dependent can also change the outcome because sitting at these different outcomes is sitting at home drinking alone. Your your mindset is completely different to someone that’s partying in a nightclub with lots of women around them drinking, you know, the highest end of drinks.

00:35:40:04 – 00:35:46:14
Speaker 2
So there’s different elements of how you’re consuming. But the overall outcome the next day and usually the same, right.

00:35:46:14 – 00:36:03:13
Speaker 1
I think I think a lot of people have this two glasses, bottle of wine every evening is not a problem because they don’t see it as an issue because I’ve worked hard a bit stress, come home, have a glass of wine. So relax. And once that’s become so woven into our fabric of our society, we actually is a problem.

00:36:03:13 – 00:36:14:07
Speaker 1
That is an addiction. If you come home and have a drink every night, wherever you front and every Saturday, that is an addiction. Yeah. And you have to look at that and think about, well, do I want to keep my addiction? Is it a problem for me? Is it having a negative consequence or not?

00:36:14:08 – 00:36:25:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. My negative consequence was I felt guilty that I could have gave my children a bit more because I’m not going to run around on the sofa and jump on the trampoline when I’m having a couple of beers because it’s like, oh, give me a break. I’m not.

00:36:25:23 – 00:36:26:20
Speaker 1
As present.

00:36:26:21 – 00:36:52:10
Speaker 2
Not as present. Lack of motivation. And I felt like a fraud when I was talking and and doing a lot of things. And, and it came to the point that I, I had imposter syndrome because I was doing the things that the people were doing and the people that I was helping were so far from where I am.

00:36:52:12 – 00:37:11:05
Speaker 2
I felt it was no way of leveling up and I listened to other people talk, and I had a conversation with a guy, I am multi-millionaire, My name is all about discipline and motivation and something just like this epiphany moment. And I said to him after, like, take this whichever way you want, but I’m going to be direct with you because you’re very direct to the speaker.

00:37:11:07 – 00:37:39:15
Speaker 2
You will you’re far from from disciplined. And would you mean I said, you’re motivated to make money, but you’re not disciplined in yourself because you’re massively overweight and you drink a few good few times a week, so you’re far from disciplined. And I said to myself from that, that conversation and some other things, and I said to fun muffins, I said, I will not stand on a stage and talk about discipline if I’m not disciplined myself.

00:37:39:19 – 00:38:01:02
Speaker 2
It’s the most contradicting, statement that I believe anyone can make. And and that was from that point there that I said, I’m not drinking no more. And I will look back in the quickest moment when you asked me, was you addicted? I’ll go, well, no, because I stopped easy. But my ease is not someone else’s. Easy. And that’s where you know, when I’ve.

00:38:01:03 – 00:38:26:06
Speaker 2
I’ve spent so much time sort of studying quantum thinking and different people’s perceptions and how someone else’s reality to be seen can’t be questioned because it’s not my reality and stuff. And, and I look back and say, you know what? Like it started to become a problem because I didn’t do it always. So that was only for a few months, that stint of Thursday, Friday and Saturday or Friday, Saturday, Sunday it was only.

00:38:26:06 – 00:38:42:19
Speaker 2
It was only for the last police. It was about six months before I became dry. Before that I’d go like three full weeks about having a drink, but it would always be a party wedding, a stag. Do it, always be bloody something and I can’t catch a break. But reality is, looking back, I just couldn’t say no.

00:38:42:20 – 00:38:43:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:38:43:05 – 00:39:13:02
Speaker 2
And now, Elliott, what I do now and it’s been quite difficult for me and fun together collectively to overturn this. We’ve had sort of many disputes and discussions about it because I don’t go to events anything anymore. Not because I’m really not because I’m in fear of drinking, because I don’t struggle at all. I really value my time now, and I feel like I’ve not been selfish enough over the years to actually say no to things that I don’t want to do.

00:39:13:02 – 00:39:42:02
Speaker 2
It doesn’t serve me. And I realize, like, I’m only I’m only 33, but my life’s going very quickly. My kids are getting older so quick, and things are happening around me that that many I can’t change and things I can and the things I can change. I want to use my time to work on changing them. I cannot think of anything worse than stood in a bar or facility listening to music that’s not of my genre, speaking to people that I’m not going to see for weeks or months on end.

00:39:42:02 – 00:40:06:22
Speaker 2
I’ll never again listening to someone else’s dope mean inflicted trash talk about things they’re never going to do because they’re getting high off of speaking about it, and the pollution of them trying to even dent my mindset. I can’t even comprehend doing that anymore. So I don’t go to stag do’s certain birthday, certain things I don’t. I opt out of so much.

00:40:06:22 – 00:40:08:08
Speaker 1
Never have FOMO.

00:40:08:10 – 00:40:32:13
Speaker 2
Never. And that’s because I’m comfortable of who I am and I’ll heaven for me would be just just being on an on an island with the kids, meditation, just doing what I want to do on my own time. That’s the measure of success for me, being financially stable enough to do what I want to do on my own time and not be dependent on other people’s time.

00:40:32:15 – 00:40:51:07
Speaker 2
And that’s what that’s where success comes from for me, and being able to eat what I want to eat. Like. That’s why now I try my hardest to, you know, make money because I like to eat grass fed me. I like to eat the best meat, I like to, I like to see places in the world that brings me fulfillment.

00:40:51:07 – 00:41:00:00
Speaker 2
I like to do things on my own time, when I want, how I want, and why I want, without being it being dictated to by by the sum of money.

00:41:00:02 – 00:41:20:03
Speaker 1
I always ask all my guests this last question. What advice would you give to somebody who’s struggling with alcohol or drugs? Who’s listening to this? I know you’re only six months sober, but in that six months, what have you learned? Little nugget that you could share of wisdom with people listening to this podcast who is struggling themselves?

00:41:20:05 – 00:41:48:14
Speaker 2
I think it’s going to be it’s going to be a little handful of nuggets there. So evaluate your social circle and that being family as well. Ask yourself honestly and put it on paper if you have to, and join the dots. Do these people serve you purpose? If they do, why? If they don’t limit the time with them, limit any triggers to get alcohol out the house.

00:41:48:15 – 00:41:52:06
Speaker 2
Find a new hobby, something they can help you with that dopamine release structure.

00:41:52:08 – 00:41:53:04
Speaker 1
Yep.

00:41:53:06 – 00:42:20:20
Speaker 2
Set a new routine. I call them rituals because the mind works well with routine rituals. If you get yourself into a good routine, you will be able to set the correct bedtime. The wake up time. So sleeping correctly will regulate your circadian rhythms and that’s what regulates your mood. A regulated mood will help with the, the, the way your mindset might drop.

00:42:20:20 – 00:42:53:06
Speaker 2
And then you look for an up. So by doing the things that feel more wholesome and fulfilling. So go for walks, exercise, basically change your whole routine structure. And depending on who you are, start as small, as big as you possibly can. But no matter what you do, whenever those demons creep in and try and bring you back to who you were, always remember and tell yourself the reason why you started and just remember what you’re feeling right now.

00:42:53:08 – 00:43:09:17
Speaker 2
Will will ultimately not stick with you forever. So when you feel like you know what? That a shit day. I’ve had enough of this. Let’s just just describe a bit like think about why you started and just go do something completely different. It’s going to take your mindset away from that first beer, because that first beer will bring you back.

00:43:09:17 – 00:43:26:19
Speaker 2
And also, if you do have one day a week, in a month, in six months in, that doesn’t mean that you’ve crashed. That just means you start again after that beer or the next day. You don’t have to go out. It’s all over. I’m done now. There’s not to be all or nothing. Go at your own pace.

00:43:26:21 – 00:43:36:01
Speaker 1
Laurie. Some very wise words. Thank you. Really appreciate you coming clean with me today for like six months in your journey. And congratulations and keep guys strong my friend. Thank you. Thank you for coming.