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[00:00:00:02 – 00:00:39:17] Today’s guest is a man whose story shows how early exposure can shape a life long before addiction takes hold. By 13 he was smoking weed, by 14 he was on ecstasy and by 15 while working on the streets of London with his dad he’d stepped into the world of the package. It might be like a 12 hour binge, it could be a 24 hour binge or it might be starting one day and going to bed two or three days later. But as soon as I’ve used I’ll just want more and more and more. I will just lose all control over the quantity I’m taking. And what’s so paranoid did you experience? I barricaded the back door, I’m sitting at the top of the stairs with a hammer and a bottle of brandy next to me. I’ve got a flashlight on my head thinking if they come through the door and I turn that on then it will be able to see me properly.

[00:00:40:24 – 00:00:57:20] There was something different about that wonder, what do you think that was? I think it was when I realised I couldn’t do it on my own and I need some form of help. I sober’d up and I thought I just can’t do it anymore. What’s the biggest reward from breaking your addiction? Life’s just got a lot easier, you know today I can show up, if I say I’m going to do something

[00:00:57:20 – 00:01:06:05] Elliot Ward, what? Addiction specialist, you’ve become a happy queen with me.

[00:01:08:22 – 00:03:47:14] Hello and welcome to another episode of Coming Clean With Me. I’m Elliot Ward, addiction specialist and today’s guest is a man whose story shows how early exposure, environment and generational patterns can shape a life long before addiction takes hold. Growing up in South End on sea, by an accounts of the state, Matthew was surrounded by drinking, cannabis and chaos. By 13 he was smoking weed, by 14 he was on ecstasy and by 15 while working on the streets of London with his dad, he’d stepped into the world of the packet. What began as trying to fit in turned into 20 years of addiction costing him relationships, stability and eventually his home. But after years of shame, psychosis and trying to get hold of his life together, something finally broke inside him. 16 months ago Matthew made the decision to get clean. Please welcome Matthew Thomas. Hello Matthew. How are you doing Elliot? I’m very well, thank you for joining us on Coming Clean With Me. I thought I’d do something slightly different today and what I did is I printed out a case history form. Now with every patient that I see, I do a full case history to get to understand their usage and their background. Now that normally takes a good 45-50 minutes just to take the information together and obviously during a podcast we’re not going to do that so I’m going to narrow it down. So the audience get an understanding of your background from a case history perspective. So let’s start with some basics. How old are you 39? 39 and your occupation? I’m a gas engineer. A gas engineer and you’re married, is that right? Do you live with someone or single? I’m divorced from my ex-wife but I’m currently in a relationship now. But do you live on your own or you live in a relationship? I live my partner. Yeah you live with your partner. Okay and any children? I’ve got three children from my past relationship. Like in the ages? They are 9 12 and 15. 9 12 and 15. I’m not going to go into the medication side or any of that because that is all a little bit personal. Let’s go back 16 months ago. Let’s imagine that you are sitting in front of me 16 months ago still using. Yeah. How often do you use? Depending on work because I work on a rotor so it would be around work so it could be

[00:03:48:17 – 00:04:29:06] sometimes once a week for a day, sometimes for two days at a time, sometimes every few days. So when you say work on a rotor let me understand that. What does that look like? I might work for five days and have four days off or I might work for a week and get a week off. Okay and then so then are you saying on the days off? Yes the days when I’m not at work then obviously that’s when I go. So let’s go back 16 months ago and let’s say you’re on a five on four off. What does that look like in terms of your usage? How often would you use? I mean I would never intend to use for a long duration so the problem I had was it could be thinking let’s get off a packet

[00:04:31:08 – 00:05:04:01] and I’d always buy it like that as well you know what I mean because I wouldn’t expect or be thinking I’m going to be up for a long time. Then I’d do a bit of that. I might be out for a few pints but then I’d want to go home because I wouldn’t really feel like socializing. I was living with a friend at the time so we were quite happy to be in each other’s company and that’s what we’d do then we might get another one and then sometimes depending whether I can get any more or I haven’t got any money there then I might not so I might end up going to bed but if it was readily available and the money was there it might be all night till the next morning

[00:05:05:08 – 00:06:08:12] if we was out doing something with a group of friends maybe some sort of special event we’d probably go for a couple of days you know what I mean. Yeah so generally you know it might be like a 12-hour binge could be a 24-hour binge. So it was a binge use and how often were the binges? A weekly, a monthly, a how often? Yeah I mean it was minimum once a week. Once a week. So once a week it was a binge. Yeah and then sometimes it would be you know it might be a bit every day for a few days or it might be the case of starting one day and going to bed two or three days later and that could depend on if I’m standing on my own or if I’m going out of a certain person and they’re very much the same as me it would just get chaotic and it wouldn’t stop literally until we’ve either got no money or can’t get hold of anyone. And once you started this the type of person that starts on a binge and once they start they can’t stop. Yeah. Right.

[00:06:09:13 – 00:06:19:18] Is that because you didn’t like the come down you wanted to keep going until you literally passed out? What do you think that was? For me because I’d be thinking about it so as soon as I’ve used

[00:06:20:19 – 00:06:26:11] although I just want more and more and more so a lot of the time you know if I was with someone else

[00:06:27:16 – 00:06:46:12] they would be they would be holding it or they would they would have it because if I had it I’ll just constantly doing it so I would just lose all control over how much the quantity I’m taking at a time, how many I’m buying you know I didn’t have any any formal control over that. And what would you say you were spending on an average week?

[00:06:48:21 – 00:07:00:13] Again depending on how much money I’ve got I mean I could spend a few hundred pound easily. What 200 300? Probably 300 quid yeah. So 1200 pounds a month? Possibly yeah. Okay.

[00:07:01:23 – 00:09:03:13] And were you drinking alcohol with this? Majority of the time I would start drinking alcohol and again it would either be can’t get any alcohol so that’s why I would stop or or why I’d stop or sometimes I think I’ll just have a little ticket and I’ll sniff without drinking sometimes. So sometimes you were dry sniffer yeah and sometimes alcohol was your gateway? Yeah. So you did both? I did both yeah. Okay and you used for a period of 16 years oh sorry how long did you use for it? Yeah I’d say probably just over 20 years. 20 years sorry to get that down 20 years and during that 20 year period of time did you stop at any given point? I mean I’d probably say over them 20 years the longest I would go without really thinking about it or knowing I’ve got a problem would be maybe I’d maybe get through a week with the weekend and then get to the next weekend and use and then so I’m 16 months clean but I would say probably for maybe two years I kept trying I wanted to I wanted to get clean so you know I would do a month and then use and drink again and then I’d do a few weeks and use and then I think I got to like three months and then used and I realized that just psychologically how my mind was working I just couldn’t kick it on my own without any sort of sort of changing myself if you know what I mean. So you were using then stopping and then using the stop is there a relapse in a cycle of starting relapse in starting relapse? Pretty much yeah. Okay and what was the number one reason you wanted to stop at that time? I mean a lot of my life I did feel less than most people so I didn’t really feel confident you know I worked with my dad and we worked on markets and we used to sell tickets for events and stuff like that so sort of ducking and diving for probably till I was about 25.

[00:09:05:21 – 00:09:17:11] Then I had my first child and wanting to change so when I’m done a plumbing course then I got gas qualified then I went and got a real job as we’d say you know like a proper straight job

[00:09:19:08 – 00:10:51:22] and obviously I want like you know and I’ll still go back to my old life in and out of it and wouldn’t really leave my old life but while I’m sort of progressing with obviously you know trying to be a father for the first time holding down a job for the first time I still couldn’t stop drinking and using. Okay let’s go back a bit so now I understand that you were a once to twice a week user you would use on a binge and basically you’re dictated by the amount of money that you could spend if you had 300 quid to spend you’d spend 300 quid if you had 100 pounds but you’d spend 100 pounds is that my understanding? Yeah so it’d be like that or you know with a work with a ticket sometimes I don’t really get money over a couple of days so that would enable me to have like a massive massive binge and it could I could end up spending five six seven hundred quid I might be out or we might be at a party or we might have some friends around and I would just keep buying it I wouldn’t care who’s paying and who’s not and the party would go on and people would come around because they know that’s what I’m like you know and then obviously no one’s there at the end of it when you’re fucking skin and you know that sort of thing. You would just spend whatever money you had on using. Yeah not everything you know I still you know I still pay bills paid rent but there’ll be times when I’d prioritize drinking and using overpaying the things that need to be paid you know and over the years obviously that got worse got in debt that sort of thing but um in the moment you know I would I wouldn’t say it was easy money but I’d earn money quickly

[00:10:52:23 – 00:15:58:13] and then just be on a high from from that work and then straight into using. So you got such a buzz from making the money yeah was this money you grafted for or money that came easily? You know I worked for it so like I say we was ticketed out so we would buy and sell tickets it might be a concert a festival football you know and sometimes you might earn a thousand pound or you might earn two three hundred quid you know we travel about and a lot of the time we’d be drinking and using while we’re at work do you know what I mean and um it was very much that sort of lifestyle of being a geezer and all that and you know I’m in London I’m meeting people and there’s some right characters and sort of that come part of my identity and then I’d get back home and I’d be the sort of like you know the Joker the character and I’d enjoy playing that role you know I’d be like oh and I’ll get that I’ll do that you know and sort of sort of trying to be the big man in a way do you know what I mean trying to fit in in that environment of people around you yeah yeah exactly that yeah so I’d be I’d spend time in London then I’d come back and spend time around my friends I’ve grown up with and um like telling them mad stories and they’re all laughing and you know would be out and I was quite quite a character and a jokey person and you know I wouldn’t say I like to be center of attention growing up but I very much was when I was on cocaine okay so let’s let’s go right back from the beginning tell me about growing up your family the environment what it was like for you so growing up we was in a highway in South in me and my mama sister like my older sister um my dad we used to see my dad occasionally eating alcoholic as well um you know sometimes he’d turn up sometimes he wouldn’t so it’s very much us free and then my mum met another man so we had a stepdad for a while um got a loving environment um I would say so with my mother yeah and even my stepdad had a fairly good relationship with him but as I got a little bit older I noticed my older sister wasn’t getting on with my stepdad then I’d hear arguing and chatting between mum and my stepdad um which wasn’t a very nice feeling quite fearful around that then I would say I noticed obviously that he wasn’t very nice to her then got to about 13 and confronted him and then after that he moved out and then at that time I’m sort of seeing my dad a little bit my dad now lives in London so he’d pick us up we’d go there for the weekend and I did miss my dad you know it was nice to to spend time with him and then he would go to work like I say selling tickets and stuff and then you know I would just go with him and not really do anything but just wanted to spend time with him um so um so I would I suppose I did feel a little lost I don’t didn’t know that then but I understand that now do you know what I mean and what was your experience at school like um so obviously being as tall as I am I was I was massive at primary school even so you know I was always getting in fights with my kids for people listening back home who have no concept how tall are you I’m six foot six six foot six yeah so I remember um I think we got arrested for some criminal damage when we was just leaving primary school and I was five foot eleven because I remember measuring me um but yeah I was much bigger than everyone else at school so maybe I realized now maybe I was a bit of a rescuer whereas people would start on some of my friends and I would step in and would like it and then we got to high school and very much the same I was fighting two three times a week because because of my height everyone thought that I had something to prove but I didn’t really you know so I was fighting quite a lot throughout school yeah what was your social life like growing up um social life so we moved out of flats to another council estate in south end and then I was hanging about the older kids so I was out with them quite a lot we’d be playing run outs running three people’s gardens um delved into a bit of shoplifting at the corner shops and stuff like that um so I suppose maybe that was one of the first little buzzes that I got out something um and then I would go between that group and my school friends pretty much from the age of like 13 14 probably 12 13 we would just be out on the streets we’d be together every day and every night most of most of my friends um all come from pretty similar backgrounds um and yeah I wouldn’t say life at home was bad but it did feel like they was my family if you know what I mean tell me about how your addiction began um so like I said I used to I can still feel the buzz now but you know nicking a few chocolate bars nicking some porno mags out the shop things like that and then it went on to like holding the door open and nicking 30 beers and things like that as we got a bit older um and then used to get a buzz out of that um never really went

[00:16:01:13 – 00:16:14:07] with crime and that never really went delve too deep in anything you know like I said we used to sell tickets it’s frowned upon but we wasn’t really hurting no one and you know like didn’t really go any further without but yeah I know it was a bit of a buzz from that

[00:16:15:13 – 00:18:40:13] um and obviously as well with the fighting at school like I did get quite a good buzz out of that at the time you were a dopamine seeking person yeah I didn’t know it at the time but it wasn’t until I think I got to probably 19 20 and obviously everyone’s caught up with their high hat so why did you first start sniffing um I was thinking it’s gotta be I reckon around the age of 15 so do you remember the first time you you did a line how it came about I do tell me yeah sorry I do remember the first time was I had a couple of older friends and they had gone to the shop and his older brother and mate was there and said I have one of these and I think I was only faulting at that time but I had it and it sent me mad like it freaked me out I didn’t know what to do I was smashing water on my face and I couldn’t really work out what was going on and it wore off and I never I never tried it again for a while but um but I think it was you know we discovered ecstasy so we we’d go out and have a few pills and we’d go walking around and just again just spending time together with my friends and that um but I remember someone a bit older that I knew they said they could get it was going to a party and um I got a gram it was only 50 good for a whole gram then as well and um you know I’ve turned over I was like whoa everyone’s excited and it lasted about six of us the whole night you know and um I do remember that night it was it was one of my friends parties and um it was we had a really good time do you know I mean it wasn’t wasn’t a problem then I didn’t have it and think oh my god like it didn’t really affect me in any way other than energetic and just talking all night until until um that’s just a very interesting question because it’s not like the first time you use you reach that point of chaos and it’s a very slow burn how long from first using on a regular basis until it became a problem it wasn’t long at all so like I said about 15 when the first sort of tried it really enjoyed it and liked it because I mean we used to have a drink but I’d either get I don’t know do stupid stuff or fall asleep or um but with that obviously I was wide awake very aware of what I’m doing a lot more confident um I would say probably from the age of seven from 15 to 17

[00:18:42:05 – 00:19:56:05] you know I wasn’t doing it like everyone else was so everyone was having a little go but you know we might all be asleep in my bedroom or something like that and I’m still awake you know and or we’ve been out somewhere and someone will ring are you still going I’m like oh yeah I am yeah as it goes you know we go to a party on a Saturday night and like Sunday afternoon I’m still up um and it was then I did realize then around 17 18 that um maybe this is just what my life’s going to be like you know I did think that I grew up around drinking and a little bit of arguing never really knew much about drugs I was quite naive to be fair before that um but you know I looked at my dad and he drunk um a lot of people in my family drunk so my mum’s side and my dad’s side you know there’s been deaths in the family there’s been a lot of alcoholism around me and I just thought maybe this is just what I’m supposed to be just the normality yeah and I just obviously that’s all I knew so I just assumed that was normal you know and then as I got a bit old I realized it’s not normal but I still just thought that that’s my normal that’s that’s what I’m supposed to be doing. And at what point did it start to become take over your life?

[00:19:58:19 – 00:20:24:01] So I met the kids mum when I was 21 um I’ll just come back from my beef with some lads that I knew from London and even then I knew I was fat then um but I didn’t really have any consequences so I was living at my mum’s giving her a little bit of money um then I met met my girlfriend there at the time and we was going out drinking and partying together for quite a while

[00:20:26:13 – 00:21:01:01] but then I would just go out and not come back you know I might go out for two days or whatever she’d be worried about where I am um and it wasn’t the fact that I was cheating or anything like that it was just the fact that we didn’t want the party to stop. It’s an interesting thing it wasn’t that I was cheating and I understand what you’re saying but think about this right and I agree with you right but let me just think about this when you’re using it’s like your inner relationship right your secretive your manipulative your focus in your attention elsewhere

[00:21:02:01 – 00:24:44:23] you’re not giving your attention in the right way you’re not present it’s exactly the same right and then all of a sudden one day you see it how did that affect your relationship and your relationship with your children your relationship with your partner at the time so obviously I was with my partner from that time was thinking of 15 years and um you know I’ve done a lot of damage obviously her trust and faith in me obviously was non-existent because that’s what I was doing we had our first child hold on let’s just not gloss over it she you’d she’d lost the trust in you because because I would say I’m going to the pub and for a few drinks maybe for an hour or two and then she wouldn’t see me for two days you know she’d be worried where I am ringing around worried about me um that went on for years then we had our first child you know I rained it in a bit she put up with that she put up with that yeah I rained it in a little bit you know and we did drinking stuff together and sometimes she’d go out and you know it was both pretty similar but I would say that I took it to the extreme you were the enabler yeah definitely yeah and um at our first child and we got our first flat together we was renting a nice flat and you know the drinking and using carried on you know we’re drinking used together quite a lot um but yeah recipe right for dessert yeah and then again at that time I’m still selling tickets so I’d go to London earn a bit of dough and not having a beer there I’m staying at my dad’s tonight you know that sort of thing so then eventually we split up for a few months so I was back at my mum’s back in the box room as they say you know what I mean uh trying to be a dad but still drinking and using when I haven’t got him um then we got back together you know and it carried on like neither of us changed we’d still drink and use you know we’d go out together we’d go out separately you know she’d be paranoid about me I’d be paranoid about her you know and it just um no communication was there then we’ve had another child um nothing really changed and then we had my daughter you know by that time I’m working you know throughout all of this because if you’re both using you’re spending twice the amount of money exactly that yeah you know it’s a juggling build you know paying this borrowing this to pay that um and that’s that’s what it was like pretty much my whole life even before I met her do you know what I mean I’d like I’ll do things just to earn money end up in debt and not care about it but um you know it was evident it was a problem throughout the whole relationship and you know the relationship was toxic you know whether it was because of the drinking drugs do you put it down to that um I struggle to see anything else that really caused it but I mean we didn’t communicate you know it was both very different people you didn’t communicate because you’re off your tits exactly that and then when we’re not you know it’s you know your temper short or your tolerance to listen’s not really there you know I’d want to sit down and talk she wouldn’t she’d want to sit down and talk I wouldn’t you know and we’re blaming it for instance it’s all blamed on me or it’s all blamed on her or it’s blamed on I don’t like this job or you know forever blaming other stuff but really you know I’m only accountable for myself and you know I can’t blame anything outside me for what I’m doing and I didn’t know that then but I know that now you know so the usage and the relationship the relationship came to an end because of the usage um I would say that we were just co-existing together both not happy and again like she would go out of our friends I’d go out my friends

[00:24:46:01 – 00:24:55:05] and it just wasn’t healthy you know and um in the end she told me to leave and I did yeah

[00:24:56:15 – 00:27:08:16] what was your lowest point during your addiction um um at that point I moved into my sisters for a bit and then was okay the thing was I was okay so you know I’d do a week or two weeks because I was at that point I was you know I’d get a few weeks or I’d get a month but if I’d been out drinking and using straight away I’d feel like my life’s over I’ve let everyone down and that’s that’s how I felt every time at the end of my drinking news in whatever I mean the come down the come down yeah okay yeah but so hang on let me understand this you you you use alcohol and you do a line and you get this huge dopamine and then at the end of it absolutely the end of it you’re not producing any dopamine of yourself and even you’re having another one it ain’t even doing nothing you’re chasing the chase right and now you have a crash and now you’re in misery yeah okay and some of my notes here says it I knew it was a problem for the last 10 years and wanted to stop yeah so I got to the point where I would use and I couldn’t even speak and you know it was it was especially my older cousin would be out and I’d go to it and they go is he taking the piss and they go no that’s just how he gets you know and you know it obviously wasn’t enjoyable for me you know I’m getting paranoid faults I’m trying to speak I can’t get my words out you know it was so obvious to other people so in the end I wouldn’t want to go out you know and that’s where I suppose isolating and using alone really took off do you know what I mean what a progression that that is the journey right the journey is most definitely socially then eventually socially you don’t want to be seen socially you become too conscious of yourself and then ends up at home so tell me about when you no longer wanted to use out I want to hear this how it become isolated I mean I suppose it was gradual because even towards the end I’d still go out and bits and pieces but mainly to have a few drinks but um um it I mean

[00:27:10:23 – 00:29:28:02] I’d notice I’d start getting a bit stuttery from time to time yeah and you know it’d be it’d be a bit of a laugh and a joke yeah like that but then it would get to the point where literally nothing would come out and it was just you know people were trying to talk to me I couldn’t even speak and in the end it just got so embarrassing um but at that time I weren’t even really thinking about just you know I’m just trying to say what I’ve got to say it’s not coming out and I’m thinking I’d rather be indoors you know so I’d be indoors on my own or wherever I’m staying at the time I’d be around there you know we might be back at someone’s house or the kitchen or whatever everyone’s chatting away in the kitchen I’m just sat in the corner with my little thing just just just bumping and bumping you know what I mean and did you go home and carry on on your own um I would go home and carry on carry on my own yeah especially like the last year a lot of it didn’t involve any going out at all really so it moved from social to just on your own pretty much yeah yeah just on my own so um it would seem like such a nice good idea like you know I’ve been good I’ve been to work all week I’ll get a little after ticket I’ll have a few beers maybe have a little gamble that would always come out when I’ve had a go as well the gambling would follow so terrific so now you have a double dopamine here because you have the dopamine from using and you have the dopamine from gambling and the interesting thing about using them together is this one is giving you huge surges right which is the using the cocaine and then the gambling is giving you mini surges even when you lose or even when you win you’re still getting dopamine surges on the possibility that is a double whammy that is extremely high in the dopamine levels because you’ve gone from 300% with using the dopamine from cocaine and then you’ve probably got another 150% from the gambling and you’re way up there that’s all right oh it is a like you say it’s a roller coaster because I’d say to friends I realized in the end it was that feeling of knowing you’ve lost everything I feel like that’s the buzz that we was chasing because it was such an overbearing power and even when you thought you was just about to lose everything and then one again that the wind didn’t mean anything you’re still in a way

[00:29:29:11 – 00:29:43:11] I didn’t want to lose but I think that was the only solution really to lose it all and have that overwhelming down feeling and then obviously now I’ve got no money so I’ve got to tick a bit again and what type of gambling was it online?

[00:29:45:21 – 00:30:39:11] Mainly on the slots really. So let me understand let’s just break this down for you Matthew let’s think about this you get on the packet you’re a few lines in or an hour in or however many amount in and you start going oh get the phone or the laptop or whatever you play on the phone I’m going to assume and it’s online rule what did you say online slots yes online slots from a psychological point of view online slots okay so what you’ve got flashing lights sound winning music losing music so that’s getting your adrenaline that started to release the serotonin from the brain circuitry that starts to release the dopamine from a different brain circuitry and then you’re chasing the loss so you’re trying to do that you’re not on the same logical pathway because you’re using and you’re trying to get back the money that you’ve lost

[00:30:41:11 – 00:31:43:24] and now let’s think about this we call it gambling but I’m just going to call it throwing things away because a slot machine is a completely random act correct there’s no skill involved it’s not like you’re playing a level of skill with another car player you’re reading the signals and the signs and you’re thinking about the cards you’ve gotten with you make the right suit and the right you’re playing a random game of sounds flashing noises while you’re racking up lines to search for dopamine while you are experiencing paranoia yeah and what type of paranoia did you experience um I would think the very same people I bought the gear off are going to come through the front door I don’t know for what reason but there was times in the last year I’m using where I barricaded the back door I’m sitting at the top of the stairs with a hammer and a bottle of brandy next to me you know I’ve got um I’ve got a flashlight on my head a what a flashlight thinking if they come through the door and I turn that on they’re not going to be able to see me properly

[00:31:45:13 – 00:32:50:00] so they give so I’m sitting at the top of the stairs obviously I’ve still got the packet there I’ve got a bottle of brandy next to me I’ve got a hammer and I’ve got my head torch on because I know it’s that bright and if they come through the door I know it’s going to deter them why they coming up the stairs so I’m sat at the top of the stairs because I feel like I’m at an advantage point I get it so that’s just like one scenario okay okay uh and this paranoia did you have other effects of paranoia like this yeah I mean when when I was in a relationship I would think you know things with my ex-partner um if we was out with friends I might think you know that they seem too pally or but sometimes we’d be indoors and it’ll just be me and her and we’ve had a few drinks she’s gone to bed and then um you know I’m paranoid someone’s gonna creep into the house um again paranoid about the police but there was no reason to be I remember one day it was really windy one morning and the fence panels were going I’m thinking people are climbing over the fence

[00:32:51:00 – 00:36:00:18] um and I think a lot of that would come if maybe I’ve run out of drink or I’ve run out of money and then my brain wants to fixate on something else that would normally be when it wouldn’t normally be like throughout the whole night it would more than likely be when I’ve run out of things to do so while you’re occupied yeah you’re not experienced in paranoia for you right to be experienced in different ways but the moment that your mind’s not occupied or focused you have thoughts just seem to come into your mind and those thoughts are paranoia of fear anxiety someone’s coming and there’s a reason behind that the reason behind that is this when you use it releases such a huge surge of dopamine and if you think about your brain like a dual carriageway and it can only fit so much dopamine along that dual carriageway it can fit so many cars traveling on the dual carriageway when you introduce more dopamine than you have room for in your dual carriageway what happens is two things your synaptic clef can’t cope with it this surge of dopamine over stimulates your brain and deep here in your brain there’s a part of your brain that attaches meaning to dopamine and the meaning that it attaches to dopamine is always fear and anxiety which leads to paranoia so as your tolerance which is what you noticed increases as the quantity you use increases and the speed in which you use that quantity the paranoia is going to surge and that’s what you experienced yeah and it’s a scary thing and and here’s the crazy thing right even while you’re having paranoia did that make you stop no that’s the funny thing about it because i’ve been there and experienced other people in it and myself as well and you know even that you’re thinking oh my heart my chest is pumping is pumping i like oh i want it to stop and as soon as it stops you have another line i mean that’s the definition of madness exactly that so tell me about you reached a point where you just got to your lowest ebb and you decided to do something about it what was that lowest point i think it was for me like for a long time you know my family my ex-partner’s family a lot of people would comment and say that i’m a good dad you know i’m always there for my kids i’d never let them down you know there might be a time where i’m hung over and we won’t go where i said we’re gonna go or i said i’d get them something that might have to be the next week you know but over the years i’ve always i like to think of myself as a good dad and a lot of people externally thought the same so that in a way made me think that i was all right because i wasn’t letting my kids down and then obviously i lived i might live with a friend for a year um he put a roof over me he had a really good friend of mine we both had kids so we’d party when we didn’t have them when we had them we’d do things together it was really nice

[00:36:02:01 – 00:36:37:07] and they come and i was just like i didn’t have a drink for 30 days it was and i got in and the boxing was on because that is it i tried to stop while my friend was still using at the time and um i’d use every line again and in the end you know i got in had a little had a couple of lines and that and then um the kids were coming the next day and i just you know i sat there it weren’t enjoyable i paid all my bills but i ended up i think i walked in i had three or four lines gambled the rest of what i had in my bank

[00:36:38:11 – 00:37:09:14] i had about three beers and about three in the morning i just thought you know what like i sobered up and i thought i just fucking ain’t doing this anymore i just can’t do it anymore had you not had that thought for 20 years yeah i’d had it before but many times something just snapped inside and you know the thought of the thought of letting my kids down and not giving them what they deserve and as well with me you know a lot of people that are you’re quite intelligent matt and you know you’re throwing your life away and i did think that about myself i want to be able to see what i can really achieve in life and i think all of that just hit me at once

[00:37:10:15 – 00:37:36:19] and i haven’t drunk all you since then but you had how many over you had a 10-year period that you didn’t want to use for that you felt the same way yeah here’s what i find really interesting and that i want people to understand in that 10-year period you also felt you were letting your family down you also felt that people told you quite intelligent man and that you should be achieving more you had that for 10 years yeah but there was something different about that one day

[00:37:38:09 – 00:39:52:04] yeah and if you could bottle it what do you think that was i think where i kept you know i’d do a few weeks or i’d do a month and i kept trying to stop and you know and i was stopping but i couldn’t stay stopped and i was just sick and tired of keeping going obviously like my life was improving at that time but i was sick and tired of going round even though it was the same cycle but less frequent you know i think it was when i realized i couldn’t do it on my own and i need some form of help and i was willing to ask someone for help really i think that’s what they come down to i think before i asked for 10 years not really no i mean the last probably the last couple of years am i using you know i went somewhere met some people that they had been clean for quite a while and they helped guide me for a few things and i just didn’t really fancy it i thought it’s not for me and then later on you know i dipped in and out of there some different meetings i went to stuff like that and i could see that i could see there was something sort of on offer but i just wasn’t convinced it was for me and i think maybe thinking i could do it on my own you know thinking that well i’ll keep stopping but you are doing it on your own that’s what i mean but i just couldn’t stay stopped and you know i’ve got some good men around me and you know if i’m struggling with stuff i talk to a couple of different fellows that i know and they’ve been through the same experience and life’s just got a lot easier and um you know today like i can show up if i say i’m going to do something i do it you know i’m not out there letting people down and messing people around and what do you do for your mental well-being now so i call it prayer meditation i mean i’m not part of any sort of religion or anything like that but i do feel like i conceded to my innermost self that some point that i’m an addict and that it’s got to change so i feel like i’m talking to maybe my innermost self um you know i’ll do some form of affirmations in the morning and i’ll sit sometimes music on sometimes with a guided meditation i feel that really helps

[00:39:53:09 – 00:40:10:14] throughout the day i do really try to not hold on to anything you know if someone says things i don’t like i try not to let that bother me too much would that have been one of your triggers to use before yeah i think letting things play in my mind you know it could be for instance

[00:40:11:21 – 00:40:49:13] in a relationship someone said something i don’t like and you know i’m thinking well i’m going away i’m doing this you know but now i i can see things from other people’s point of view so i can see from other people’s perspective in a situation rather than thinking about myself and what about structure like do you go to the gym do you exercise do you have a routine it’s funny you say that because i moved into my new apartment just over it just under a year ago and there’s a gym downstairs and um i was going to the gym before i moved there i didn’t use it for about two months but i’ll go to gym occasionally a couple of times a week maybe um

[00:40:50:17 – 00:43:34:07] i like a nice walk down the seafloor because i live right on the seafloor oh that’s beautiful so you go for walks yeah so you spend a lot of time you know thinking and being at one with yourself yeah i try not to spend too much time in my head but at the same time that’s how i find gratitude especially in the mornings you know a lot of what i’ve had in my life i will still have my life has always been there but i’m looking at it differently now and how’s your relationship changing your children being 16 months clean i mean my oldest son is 15 uh we’ve been to like a lot of football away games and been to a few concerts and he’s been out of me when i’ve been drinking you know there’s been a few of the lads and a few of the our kids that are with us um would you give him a line no of course not why not because then you do that 15 he must be missing out surely no no he’s not missing anything and he knows it as well why not it’s just not right is it you know i mean and you know when it when it’s right come on why not when he’s older it’ll work things out for himself do you know what i mean but what are you gonna do to help him on the path of well that’s what i’m doing now so i’m leading by example so you know we’ve we’ve been to for instance we saw the arctic monkeys and i was drunk then and i was with a friend and his son as well and then me and my son went to see oasis in manchester in july it was and i’m stone cold so it was just me and him drove up there stayed up there for a couple of nights had the best time of our lives was hugging each other both had tears in our eyes told me how much he loves me and and he said to me dad like you’re such a better person now you know my other two children noticed stuff as well but they’re a bit younger so they haven’t really experienced as much with me but for instance we was down the seafront about about a year ago it was and we walked past somewhere and it was only like a little cafe and my son said oh look dad they sell beers there and my little girl she said why are you saying that you know dad don’t drink you know and they like there has been occasions when i’ve been out and i’ve had a couple of zero beers and my little girl be like what’s that you know like making sure and i said like you haven’t got to worry you know what i mean and they do like i’ve asked them questions and they’ve said like um you can still be a bit a bit stressful sometimes and especially in the mornings trying to get them ready but as a whole you know i can see my relationship with them is a lot better and what do you think was the most challenging thing you had to overcome to get clean um i think one of the main things

[00:43:36:04 – 00:43:59:21] was thinking that i’m not ever going to have anything to do you know majority of my friends grew up the same way as me and we like a drink and we like a little go um thinking that i’m going to lose all my friends and not going to have anything to do but the reality was at the end i wasn’t doing any of the stuff i thought i was going to miss out anyway so that was one of the hardest things um

[00:44:01:06 – 00:44:07:09] thinking you know like oh what about birthdays what about christmas what about weddings but

[00:44:08:21 – 00:44:37:08] again the reality is i wasn’t when i was drinking the news and i wasn’t present at any of them events anyway do you know what i mean so in a way my head’s just trying to say to me look come on you still want to do this you still want to do that but i think over a couple of years of keep trying to stay clean i just realized that my head tells me a lot of bullshit you know what i mean last question what’s the biggest reward that you’re experiencing today

[00:44:38:21 – 00:47:18:07] from breaking your addiction because life is very different and i’m so grateful um you know i’ve met a woman of my dreams we’re in a caring loving relationship oh i heard the croaking in the voice there um the relationship with my children you know we went to london went to our london sunday and um just just like being present at every moment you know the train journey there and back was the best part of the day out we’re playing little games on the train and um you know i’m very aware of what my kids are saying and i’m listening and i’m responding um you know my mum hasn’t got to worry about me now she still does but she doesn’t have to you know she’s not worried where i am what i’m doing you know i’ve got an older sister that’s got children i’m there to help her she’s 90 days clean today as well so hang on a minute what’s your sister’s name luis luis 90 days good on you girl yeah proud of her yeah very proud yes so 90 days so were you the inspiration um i like to think so so you know i definitely feel like there’s a ripple effect so some people you know they might think that my life’s better than there that’s why i can do it my life’s easier that’s why i can do it um i never really had a problem that’s why i can do it um but the reality is if you just put some work into yourself you know and get honest i just feel like what you do has a ripple effect some people might get funny but like a friend of mine i was living with i rang him when i was a gear cleaner and i said to him like i just wanted to say thanks like as much as we partied hard together for quite a while um i said like thanks for the roof over my head you looked after me you really helped me out and he’s like well when you’re coming for a beer then and i said to him look the fact is it just ain’t worth it for me anymore i said like he goes you must think about going for a beer i said yeah i’d like to go for a couple of beers i said but the thought of waking up in the morning even after a few beers or half a ticket just the feeling about myself again i just couldn’t go through that and he’s like all right no worries and he won’t ever ask me again we’re still talking that but now he understands why i don’t want to do it you know i mean and i just think once people can see your progress i don’t try and showboat or make out i’m any better than anyone like i’ve got open arms to anyone i’ve got friends and family that have run me struggling and i want to help them but you know yourself like unless we’re willing to help ourselves

[00:47:19:08 – 00:48:16:11] it just um it can become too painful trying to help people so i’ve realised that there’s only so much i can do this is true and also you know it’s all very well and good trying to want to help people and i think it’s an admirable thing and i see a lot of people who’ve been through addiction doing that there are a couple of things that trouble me like how do they deal with an ab reaction if the person turns around and says they’ve been abused or they’ve been raped or they’ve been through trauma or they’ve got psychological problems or they have ADHD or PTSD and that does worry me because i see it more and more because they’re talking to someone and then all of a sudden this person has an ab reaction which is an emotional cleansing in psychology that something suddenly comes up and if you don’t have the tools or the training or the years and years of studying to be able to cope and address this that can leave the person in a really bad state so i think you’re absolutely right with that matthew thomas i really appreciate your time thank you for coming clean with me nice one cheers thanks