Click Play Button Above To View Video

Transcript

00:00:00:21 – 00:00:10:01
Elliott Wald
Hi. My name’s Elliot Ward. I am the hypnosis expert and addiction specialist. And here today, my special guest, Mike Carroll. How you doing, Mike?

00:00:10:02 – 00:00:11:16
Mike Carroll
Very well, thanks. Good.

00:00:11:18 – 00:00:28:05
Elliott Wald
Let me just tell you a couple of things about Mike. Mike, he’s 36 years old, two young children and obviously has gone through the pattern of addiction. And he’s here to share your story. So might just tell me a couple of things about how it first started for you.

00:00:28:07 – 00:00:57:11
Mike Carroll
So I think it was definitely the industry that I worked in that kickstarted the the usage of the packet with a bag. I started sales about 23, 24 years old. I realized very quickly I was quite good at it. And there’s a culture that if you allow yourself to fall into within recruitment, sales, anything as a sales nature to it, there’s always a risk that you could fall victim to having a good time, which leads to the poor habits.

00:00:57:12 – 00:00:58:19
Elliott Wald
The packet we could buy here.

00:00:58:24 – 00:01:03:13
Mike Carroll
Absolutely. And that’s that’s what happened to me. I fell victim to it.

00:01:03:15 – 00:01:06:03
Elliott Wald
Did you start straight into recruitment at the age of 24?

00:01:06:06 – 00:01:22:14
Mike Carroll
I sales. But I was more support staff. And then I thought, gosh, I like the look at what they’re doing in every aspect of what they were getting up to. You know, I knew what was going on and I just thought I had a taste for it already and I’m dive straight in when I got the opportunity. So went up the ranks pretty quick.

00:01:22:14 – 00:01:28:12
Mike Carroll
I was. I’d like to think I’m a good salesman. And, you know, I got stuck into everything going.

00:01:28:14 – 00:01:31:09
Elliott Wald
And how did you first start using?

00:01:31:11 – 00:01:45:14
Mike Carroll
I remember the first line I ever did, and I was out with a very good friend of mine. He still is a very good friend of mine. And we were in a place in north west London and we just pulled out and he said to me, Have somebody, how.

00:01:45:14 – 00:01:46:10
Elliott Wald
Old are you at this point?

00:01:46:12 – 00:02:06:15
Mike Carroll
20. Because I. 23. 24. Okay. I had a coin and it was outside the club. And I remember doing doing the first bum. Yep. And that was the reason I remember it so well. It was such I look back and think that’s where it started. And then it sort of it went uphill from there and then straight downhill nosedived.

00:02:06:15 – 00:02:09:18
Elliott Wald
Was that friend a friend in the industry of recruitment? Yeah.

00:02:09:20 – 00:02:10:10
Mike Carroll
Yeah.

00:02:10:12 – 00:02:13:13
Elliott Wald
Did you see him as successful? Was he someone to look up to?

00:02:13:14 – 00:02:34:18
Mike Carroll
No, he was a he was what he is. But he was a long term friend, you know, a good friend of my sister is good friend of. We were quite close. There were other people in the industry that sort of that I was close with, but it was only on a work level, although it didn’t matter who it was, if they were all doing the same thing at the weekend, in the evening.

00:02:34:20 – 00:02:39:04
Mike Carroll
You were friends for one reason, whereas he was a no friend of mine. So yeah.

00:02:39:06 – 00:02:46:08
Elliott Wald
So that first line with that friend who you close with, how did that manifest itself to the next time you did it?

00:02:46:10 – 00:03:11:15
Mike Carroll
So that’s where it gets interesting. So I almost started sampling immediately on my own. So it went from having to, as most people go through when they start, it was like a weekend thing. Yeah, I had no money. So my I was always really curious as if I could get I got really excited. I no doubt, yes, I was doing this job and I didn’t really care about it.

00:03:11:17 – 00:03:27:01
Mike Carroll
And it was almost safer that way because you can you get it when you can get it, when you can afford it. So I was 42, 23, no money, I’ll get 50 quid In the end. What I was doing was I was so curious to sort of do it on my own. I was doing it with people. I was really wanting to go out on my own.

00:03:27:01 – 00:03:45:09
Mike Carroll
I wanted to do it on my own, to sort of do the whole one and say so. So I remember having it delivered to where I was living at the time, and it was in north west London in Harrow. And the guy boy over to me and I, which is funny because I knew the other guys picked up from this particular dealer.

00:03:45:11 – 00:04:05:19
Mike Carroll
Yeah. And I became quite friendly. He’s dead now, God rest his soul. But I’ve become quite friendly with this guy, really nice bloke. And after that, because we got close, he was taking me, right. So I built up like a three for one debt. Wow. And he, you know, we became friends and he would sort of let me off and it just got out of control.

00:04:05:19 – 00:04:12:21
Mike Carroll
So there was this sort of 23, 24 stage where I started doing it on my own. Immediately I was excited to do it.

00:04:12:22 – 00:04:22:18
Elliott Wald
Well, now that’s quite unusual to, to, to yeah. Having done it socially, just once or twice. Yeah. To suddenly become in that on your own antisocial completely.

00:04:22:23 – 00:04:35:13
Mike Carroll
But the thing is I would still be so young and I was hanging around with live wires. You know, everyone is in this industry. I’m not, I don’t know. Just focus it all back on recruitments. It was like I’m. I’m giving him a bike. All my friends were doing it as well.

00:04:35:17 – 00:04:59:06
Elliott Wald
Listen, listen, I think, Mike, multiple industries using the packet. It has completely become the norm of whether you are a plasterer, a bricklayer from the building industry with rain on it. He, you know, he Pete he’s, you know and I think financial services, you know, stockmarket stockbrokers. So I don’t think there’s any difference in in a recruitment sector.

00:04:59:08 – 00:05:16:06
Mike Carroll
I don’t think it is but because it’s all over did it was only when I started watching shows like yours, I thought everyone’s on it. You know, there’s no light. As you say, it doesn’t discriminate. But no, my it got quite dark for me from there. I remember getting a job in London Bridge, and that’s where I started earning some serious money.

00:05:16:08 – 00:05:20:03
Mike Carroll
You know, I was 24, 25 at this time, and I was getting like ten, 15 grand a month.

00:05:20:03 – 00:05:22:23
Elliott Wald
So your dealer went from seeking you to rubbing his hands together. How many.

00:05:22:24 – 00:05:34:07
Mike Carroll
Hands together? I’ll tell you this. Listen to this. He he passed away. He killed himself. And there were people I went to extreme because I actually like the bloke, right. Or people that turned up to his family to make sure he was gone. See that? That was.

00:05:34:09 – 00:05:34:21
Elliott Wald
Wiped.

00:05:34:21 – 00:05:37:17
Mike Carroll
Off, I think. Yeah. They didn’t care. I just find that maybe he’s definitely gone.

00:05:37:23 – 00:06:02:16
Elliott Wald
For some of the listeners who are in different countries who don’t know what it means, it’s like when you go to dealer and you haven’t got the money and you go, Can you take that somebody? Can you loan it to me? I’ll buy you a later date. And often people who can’t afford to use but want to use because they they have that that desire, that compulsion, they will then build up this debt that they owe and in some cases can be thousands and thousands of pounds.

00:06:02:16 – 00:06:03:03
Elliott Wald
So, yeah.

00:06:03:03 – 00:06:20:04
Mike Carroll
Go Well, they’ll let it go as far as as far as they can go if they know, because they know what you do for a living as well. So they used to this guy used to drop it off to me in London Bridge. I was working for a firm there and everyone was earning a fortune. But these guys, this guy was a regular around there, so he knew we were all out in cash.

00:06:20:10 – 00:06:31:02
Mike Carroll
So they know he’s always going to come back. The money’s always the money that come back from you, come back from the next. A lot of people to serve them up next week. And he just used a you figure you owe him on his phone book next. It’s his name.

00:06:31:07 – 00:06:48:23
Elliott Wald
Right. So did you think did you think there was part of that was being in the recruitment industry is like you close a deal and you know, you’re getting say, to a percentage commission, you’re going to make so much money. It’s like, Yeah, fuck, I’ve just made that. I still get Melo May Yeah.

00:06:49:00 – 00:07:06:09
Mike Carroll
good or bad news. If I had a client one day, they’d stop using me. That was an excuse. Like I said, if it was a Tuesday, that was an excuse. Thursday was, it’s almost like the day of psychos in the city because Thursday is considered Friday and it’s almost now an excuse used to come Wednesday. Thursday we used to go, let’s be different to go out on a Wednesday.

00:07:06:09 – 00:07:25:13
Mike Carroll
Come on then we’ll have Friday off. Yeah, I’ll go out with a boys and I won’t even be home until Sunday. You know, I’d do like four or five day benders. And what I would end up doing is to maybe, maybe I just operate differently. I was operating differently only so I would I would go out and on it old guys would go want, you know, women pay for it and stuff.

00:07:25:15 – 00:07:26:13
Mike Carroll
It was never really interesting.

00:07:26:13 – 00:07:27:05
Elliott Wald
Ladies of the.

00:07:27:05 – 00:07:47:23
Mike Carroll
Night. Ladies of the night. Yeah. I mean, they would go and do that for days, you know, they could go and shag Beaver Street. That’s exactly. Yeah. And there’s one around every corner, you know. And I would go, honestly, I would end up outside Euston Train Station with homeless people, too. I know. Talking to them for hours. Right.

00:07:48:00 – 00:08:01:23
Mike Carroll
And I remember once, like, I remember I felt so sorry for all of them. And I. I think it was payday. You know, I used to paid I used to come. I used to go to a lot of different cash machines and take 250 free, whatever it would let me at take out. You get a limit on all of it at night, about four or five bank cards.

00:08:02:04 – 00:08:17:01
Mike Carroll
But at the time I was earning a fortune, so I was 25 and going with cash points. I didn’t the penalties cash honestly won’t get on it. I’ll be on it all night. I’d walk the city on my own. I’d actually detached from people. I was weak because I hate them all anyway. Yeah. And I’d walk around the city on my own.

00:08:17:02 – 00:08:32:03
Mike Carroll
I don’t know what I was looking for, but I sort of enjoyed it. I love London anyway, and I don’t know if it was like an escape mechanism for me. It was a bit weird, but I sort of end up at Euston and think, fuck out of the game. The missus was in. We lived in Hertfordshire, we just moved there.

00:08:32:10 – 00:08:47:21
Mike Carroll
So it was a fast train back from Euston and from about 11:00 she’d get I would even Google trying to light a picture of it and I would send it to her. Then she’d come back to me and I’ll just look. You like your line, your excuse. And then I wouldn’t read the message right? And then I would be in.

00:08:47:22 – 00:09:03:13
Mike Carroll
I’m in forget what what’s called nuisance hat now. But it used to be the Britannia and I would sit up there and I would sing. At the time I was, I was quite a not heavy drinker, but you know, I would I guess it would support what I was trying to do and avoid going back. So I’d sort of sink three or four points and then.

00:09:03:13 – 00:09:05:08
Elliott Wald
Balancing out using the package.

00:09:05:10 – 00:09:23:13
Mike Carroll
Well, I don’t even know if it was that. I don’t even know if it was that, because I’ll do two points and then I would message the going, I need some more. Euston was my that was my trigger Euston station. And outside there and there’s another little boozer, the Royal George. I think over there I would I would be literally like a fly nip in between the daily go back to the office.

00:09:23:13 – 00:09:43:14
Mike Carroll
It was safer to do gear and Euston Station. So I’d go at the toilets and Euston Station pay 50, pay in the little slot and go in something exciting about it, you know. And even I look back now, I don’t feel disgusted by. I just think, you know what? I don’t ever regret anything I ever did. Those little memories that sort of I look back and think, well, I’ve come from as opposed to if I was still living now, I’d be sort of worried about that.

00:09:43:14 – 00:09:49:23
Elliott Wald
But yeah, and somebody looking at you at that time, you know, let’s say you bumped into someone around the area, would they know you were using?

00:09:50:00 – 00:10:10:06
Mike Carroll
You know, I was really good at covering up, right. I knew I would go back to my ex-partner and like, I think one time she found like a like a broken cut straw in my wallet when she was gone. And it was something like that. Anyway, it rolled up. No. Were some people hopping in view? And she sort of went, What’s this?

00:10:10:06 – 00:10:33:12
Mike Carroll
And it was definitely because the excuse I gave her, I said to at a Burger King on the way back and not the straw snapped or something like that, I don’t know. She just fell for it. I think maybe you just don’t want to believe it. It was just so obvious. I mean, you know, we used to there were people that I would go out with and me and their fella or like, we’d get on really well and we we’d all be out with double dates and quadruple dates, and we’d be getting on it, you know, and none of our messages knew about.

00:10:33:13 – 00:10:42:16
Elliott Wald
So you were very functioning, absolutely functioning. Right. And at the end of the day, you were working hard. So maybe if she did know, she was thinking like, you know what? I’ll just turn a blind eye.

00:10:42:18 – 00:11:00:12
Mike Carroll
Yeah, well, the thing is, that’s where I that’s, that’s the bit that gets me. Now. I look back and I think to myself, You know what? I’ve never really got to that point of asking or even ever heard so many people like I couldn’t describe to her and to almost I’ve put people through. That’s what gets me.

00:11:00:12 – 00:11:15:16
Elliott Wald
Now, let’s just go back to the streets. We come back to this is go back to the streets of London. So so I’ve got this image of you. You’re going from pub to pub. Yeah. You’re doing line after line, you’re drinking beers, you going into the paid toilets because you know that’s safe. But you know that’s the place to go.

00:11:15:18 – 00:11:17:13
Mike Carroll
Everyone you know, everyone’s there.

00:11:17:14 – 00:11:37:18
Elliott Wald
Yeah. And then you’re on the street and you come into the properties, homeless people and I guess you have a lot of empathy because you’re feeling upset and sorry. Plus, you’re not saying that you wouldn’t give any way. But yeah, when you use the packet, you do things maybe on a bigger scale than you possibly would. Yeah.

00:11:37:20 – 00:11:56:04
Mike Carroll
Well, no, I mean, I would never even dream. I would always give money to someone who genuinely looked like they needed it, of course. But these people, you know, I mean, I’m fully probably aware that they probably thought this is an idiot coming along, which I was. And, you know, in the end, I think after one time I gave one of them like 20 quid and he was like, you know, I’m going to do this, don’t you?

00:11:56:04 – 00:12:06:00
Mike Carroll
I never you know, he never came back to the table, but happened a few times. Right. And I did feel sorry for all of them. But now, you know, I’m being honest. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if I was. See, But, you know.

00:12:06:01 – 00:12:10:23
Elliott Wald
Do you think do you think that you could you sat there and chewed their ear off, you know, you sat and talked to them? Yes.

00:12:10:24 – 00:12:13:03
Mike Carroll
Guess it driven them insane because they’re homeless.

00:12:13:08 – 00:12:26:08
Elliott Wald
Do you think do you think that, you know, on another level, you were thinking not that they’re lower you than you than your hand. Them don’t mean anything like that. But do you think on another level you were thinking, I can talk to these people and they wouldn’t judge me even if they knew?

00:12:26:10 – 00:12:31:24
Mike Carroll
Yes. Yeah. There’s there’s, there’s very much I you get to get it off your chest without someone going. You did what.

00:12:32:04 – 00:12:32:14
Elliott Wald
Yeah.

00:12:32:14 – 00:12:39:12
Mike Carroll
You know, and it’s funny because they have empathy almost and that’s sort of what.

00:12:39:12 – 00:12:40:10
Elliott Wald
Would you talk to them about.

00:12:40:10 – 00:12:43:07
Mike Carroll
You use it, you know, I told them they know I’d be doing it where I’m sitting there.

00:12:43:09 – 00:12:47:08
Elliott Wald
So this is like your counselor, like you would be quite a fairly cheap counselor. I was.

00:12:47:08 – 00:12:50:01
Mike Carroll
Completely Well, actually, no, because I end up giving them money, didn’t I said, well.

00:12:50:02 – 00:12:53:20
Elliott Wald
I mean you forgive accounts for the money, but you know, and you’re doing a good deed.

00:12:53:22 – 00:12:58:23
Mike Carroll
I’m doing a good deed. I mean, although you know where the money goes afterwards. So you sort of think afterwards like.

00:12:58:23 – 00:13:25:18
Elliott Wald
You know, that’s an interesting thing because I always give, you know, not far from where I live, there’s a petrol station. There’s always a young lad. He’s about 22 years old. He’s been there for about two years. I fill up at maybe 9:00 at night, at 10:00 at night when I finish work and he’s always there. And whenever I come, I always give him either a five, a return of and so many people I know who know me in the area go it was give that guy five or ten, you know, he’s going to go do with it.

00:13:25:20 – 00:13:48:06
Elliott Wald
And I kind of look it and I go, which you know what firstly, he’s very similar age to my youngest son. So I kind of go, you know, fuck, you know, if that was my son, you know that somebody’s son, you know, you know, you break my heart and I’m sure I would break their parents heart. And at the end of the day, if they what they choose to go and do with it, I’m not condoning what they do.

00:13:48:06 – 00:14:07:09
Elliott Wald
Right. But if that gives them that, that our two hour, three hour, ten minute whatever opportunity to get away, you know, to distract from, you know, to to get away in their head, from what they’re going through, then, you know, who the fuck am I to judge?

00:14:07:09 – 00:14:28:11
Mike Carroll
Yeah, I agree. I think to myself, if you can, I’d rather give them the option than to wonder, you know, did someone starve to death or something because you couldn’t give a fiver over. I always think the latter is always a better option in terms of helping someone out or and also it’s not their fault, you know, they just people that had addiction that didn’t find a way out or they went deeper and deeper.

00:14:28:13 – 00:14:42:04
Mike Carroll
It makes no difference to them. I don’t see myself as different. I had an addiction. Yeah. And it just so happened that I had a functioning, high paid job to go with it. So, you know, if people in my position ended up homeless, you know, there’d be no difference between me.

00:14:42:04 – 00:15:00:19
Elliott Wald
Now it’s like a dark hole. This is the way I describe. It’s like this dark hole, right? And before you use it, you’re on the outside of the dark hole. Once you start using, you being drawn and dragged towards it. And once you become an addict, you’re in that dark, dark hole. Right? That that deep, dark hole, you know, the black hole, you know, if you like space to do that.

00:15:00:21 – 00:15:13:14
Elliott Wald
And then then in order to get out, gravity keeps pulling you back in. And it’s very, very hard to get even when you’re out on the surface of it, even when out the black hole is pulling you back in so strongly, so powerfully. And that’s where they’re at.

00:15:13:17 – 00:15:28:04
Mike Carroll
And everyone’s in there. You know, it’s just that’s the whole point. If everyone’s the same at that point, there’s no difference between me having a job and sitting at Euston acting like I don’t have a home. I’m so people who actually don’t have a home, we’re all just it just means that I’ve got a bed to go through.

00:15:28:04 – 00:15:29:08
Mike Carroll
I’m actually choosing not to.

00:15:29:10 – 00:15:50:14
Elliott Wald
Yeah, I’ll tell you saying I don’t, I don’t I know this is going to go on YouTube and I think some people misunderstood them. What about to say, But I’m going to tell you a true story. I do not spend a £5 note, right? I don’t spend the firepower. Pound. It’s absolutely true. So for those who knew my story that I left home very, very young, I had a very abusive relationship.

00:15:50:14 – 00:16:10:15
Elliott Wald
I left home at 14 years old. There were many times I went without food, you know, hungry, stole from a corner shop. You know, the stories out that I paid the money back, etcetera, but did those things where I went without food. And there were so many times I looked down the back of a sofa just to find a few pounds to be able to go and buy a loaf of bread or some milk and some eggs.

00:16:10:17 – 00:16:34:08
Elliott Wald
Anyway, we move forward a bit. So eventually in life, when I start to become successful, when I want to have financial, you know, success, I suddenly thought of I’m never going to spend a fiver again. And if someone misunderstands you, don’t give me £5 change, you don’t throw it on the floor. But what I do is I keep the £5 note and when I get back home I’ve got this huge protein up.

00:16:34:08 – 00:16:54:09
Elliott Wald
It’s protein proteins have right. And I keep the £5 notes in the protein up, I swear to God. Right. And every year come Christmas I donate whatever’s in that £5 hub. How many £5 are going there for the whole year. I will donate either to a charity or when I see people on the street, or when I see people need things or I buy things.

00:16:54:09 – 00:16:57:21
Elliott Wald
People love Christmas and that’s the £5 note story. So, you.

00:16:58:01 – 00:17:07:09
Mike Carroll
Know, you get that right for good causes and you know, and also you feel like when you do a good deed like that, you know, you know, you’re giving back something. It’s nice.

00:17:07:09 – 00:17:12:24
Elliott Wald
Listen, if you if you always draw from the well, there’s never going to be fucking water for someone else.

00:17:13:00 – 00:17:15:18
Mike Carroll
No, that’s just that’s exactly it. You know, fill it little sometimes.

00:17:15:18 – 00:17:18:09
Elliott Wald
Yeah. So tell me about your daughters, because you got a four or five year old, right?

00:17:18:09 – 00:17:28:07
Mike Carroll
Yeah, I’ve got four. And a five year old was out from last night. I’ve been making a lot more time for them recently and my relationship sort of just improving with them too.

00:17:28:09 – 00:17:32:13
Elliott Wald
So you notice when you were using that or that you were a father, but you weren’t present.

00:17:32:13 – 00:17:50:16
Mike Carroll
I was present, father. No, no, I was ashamed of us. The one thing I look back and go, I absolutely regret, you know, I missed observe by the birth of both my daughters, but myself and my ex, who’s a great mum, by the way. You know, we get on. We’re very, very close for the sake of our kids.

00:17:50:18 – 00:18:08:10
Mike Carroll
Yeah. I mean, I was there for both the birth of both of them, but I didn’t raise them. You know, I’m very I’ve never missed a weekend with them, but I don’t see that it’s been me. I was, if I had a hard week or fired, you know, got on it or something, it was just I was ratty and I wasn’t with them.

00:18:08:10 – 00:18:25:21
Mike Carroll
Whereas now, you know, I’m feeling fresh and I’m sort of doing things like we sometimes we book random hotel somewhere, but it’s a nice swimming pool for them and we’re enjoying life a little bit more and we’re trying to do more exciting things. Seen him during the week, take him for dinner, sort of helping them out a little bit more because I was selfish, horribly selfish, you know.

00:18:25:21 – 00:18:46:09
Mike Carroll
And I know some of it’s sort of a bit of a laugh and it’s sort of funny when I look back at it and some of the things that happened, but the torment that gets caused to others who are just sort of by standing and watching, including my kids, you know, then mean the world to me. And that’s why I sort of try to change my life and with what I do now for a living, that’s that’s all I care about, is sort of setting them up.

00:18:46:09 – 00:18:57:19
Mike Carroll
And it’s my wife saying, sorry. You know, there’s not a week or whatever goes by that I’m not literally pumping money over to their mum and making sure they sort it out. That’s the only good thing I can think that came of it.

00:18:57:19 – 00:19:17:06
Elliott Wald
Well, you know, you listen, you say you’re ashamed, but I always think to myself, you seem more at rock bottom than you do standing on the top of the tallest mountain. Yeah. And I think sometimes when you hit rock bottom, it doesn’t have to be financial. Can be emotional. However, rock bottom is for you. You start to see things, right?

00:19:17:07 – 00:19:31:05
Elliott Wald
You know, people go, I’m on the tallest mountain, obviously, for fucking miles. No, When you hit rock bottom, that’s when you should be able to look up and see what got you there, what you need to get from where you are to where you need to be. And that’s when you start applying yourself.

00:19:31:06 – 00:19:53:15
Mike Carroll
Absolutely. And it can’t get any worse. Yeah, that’s another thing that I always said to myself and I, I went there into my last time I had a major breakdown because I’d had a few along the way, but the last one was 2018. And so I would tell my brother, we were expecting some of my youngest and I was just completely off.

00:19:53:17 – 00:19:56:24
Mike Carroll
I mean, probably somewhere around here, you know, I was I owned a company.

00:19:56:24 – 00:19:58:09
Elliott Wald
Talking to a homeless man.

00:19:58:11 – 00:20:15:02
Mike Carroll
Very likely boring them, you know, just they probably saw too much of me. But I owned a company then and I basically went I mean, I sort of look back and think it led me to where I was now so I can laugh at it. I went into that company, I won’t name them, but they were in the Tower of London.

00:20:15:02 – 00:20:31:01
Mike Carroll
And, you know, we we were doing very, very well and I was doing it with a co-director. I hope he watches this, actually, because he’d probably find it funny now. And I went in there like a bull in a china shop. You know, I just the power sort of overwhelmed me and I was taking all the employees out for he wouldn’t come in or he’d be right.

00:20:31:07 – 00:20:38:09
Mike Carroll
I’d be taking employees out, done no work, and we’d be eating olives and drink and cocktails when even we hadn’t even done anything. And we were doing that for.

00:20:38:11 – 00:20:40:06
Elliott Wald
Celebration before the work began.

00:20:40:11 – 00:20:53:18
Mike Carroll
And then what would happen was like, we should go back to work. Like, I don’t worry about that. Listen, I’m the director. You know, I was only a 10% shareholder at the time, so that’s me just giving it the big ballocks. And I was like, No, and I take a walk round em, absolutely wank it, you know, all day long.

00:20:53:22 – 00:21:10:15
Mike Carroll
And I’d end up at places the company couldn’t even afford yet We didn’t have a renaissance or somewhere like that. And then they just strip me the company card, everything. And then I ended up going to do it on my own and I’d lost a good friend of mine at this point. So he died using drugs, right? Went to sleep on the sofa, woke up, swallowed his tongue.

00:21:10:17 – 00:21:12:01
Elliott Wald
He was using using the packet.

00:21:12:03 – 00:21:15:24
Mike Carroll
No, no. What? He was there for his cocktail of everything. God knows what he was.

00:21:16:02 – 00:21:17:07
Elliott Wald
Alcohol knew he.

00:21:17:07 – 00:21:39:10
Mike Carroll
Was a huge drink up. But to be successful when to say 36, when he when seemed my age now and his message I knew very well just came up in the morning. There was a song that had been repeated repetitively playing that he had on and he was just aged blue swallow his tongue, but he’d apparently ordered spice or something the week before, so he was doing the packet and then smoking that to calm down, never woke up.

00:21:39:12 – 00:21:54:12
Mike Carroll
So that happened to me and him were like brothers. There was nothing we didn’t do together. Right. So the worst part about that and what threw me over the edge at that period was landscapes was shameful. But I couldn’t tell anyone why I was there or who I was. Because imagine that. the drug for your son. Yeah.

00:21:54:12 – 00:22:10:08
Mike Carroll
You know, because that’s really what we did. Yeah. So for me, it was really emotional and I had a full on breakdown and I just went into at the time you were running this company and they were like, Where are you this? The silos can’t survive without you. And I was like, Fuck off. I mean, I mean, I’m getting off my self and I am.

00:22:10:08 – 00:22:24:22
Mike Carroll
I’ll do what I want. And this carried on to the point where they may I help, you know, and I look back now, I think it was the best thing that happened to me because I think kind of pulled the old out Anyway. I think they were probably using me for something that they never intended of giving me.

00:22:24:24 – 00:22:41:20
Mike Carroll
Ended up. Margaret My grandfather died shortly after that, you know, a couple of years down the line. And you know what? I was sitting in my living room. So COVID period right then went on for fucking I just went to counseling for therapy. I went to some bloke who never done drugs in his life. Tell me what it was like to do drugs motion.

00:22:41:22 – 00:22:55:15
Elliott Wald
That always amazed me, you know? you should go and see if you go see that drug counseling. You got to see the drugs. Come with me. Go how much you do. And this guy goes, I threw four grams away. This guy goes another eight grams. When you go to 12 grams a week. okay. And I’ve heard these people.

00:22:55:15 – 00:23:12:17
Elliott Wald
I go, when you say you do four grams, how much you spend, they go, I’ve spent about 130 quid. What are you doing? Do four grams for 130 food might. You know, it’s just like, you know, you don’t realize it’s £10 a point. Work at these drug houses. You’ve never done a dog in their life. Have absolutely no concept.

00:23:12:17 – 00:23:33:24
Elliott Wald
You know, it’s great having a theory. You know, I always say this is not study for years without the theory, without the qualifications, without the experience. You’ve got no strategy of helping somebody. But without going through using it, you’ve got no fucking concept of what that feels like. You’ve got to understand yourself to be able to help somebody get out.

00:23:34:01 – 00:23:40:20
Mike Carroll
There’s nothing I did this got. I mean, it was very good, very nice man. And he was very well known in that field.

00:23:40:20 – 00:23:42:17
Elliott Wald
Did you wear a cardigan?

00:23:42:19 – 00:23:52:03
Mike Carroll
Yeah. Do you know what I think? He probably did. He was one of the. It was. It was quite grand. It’s like watching Baker Street. One of them. One’s a suit. I go it. No, he was like. It was like going to see the granddad.

00:23:52:05 – 00:23:53:23
Elliott Wald
Made in the wooly cardigan.

00:23:53:24 – 00:24:05:09
Mike Carroll
Yeah. And, you know, the questions to me was sort of like in why is it you’re doing this? And I was like, So fucking want to, you know, that was my answer to it. I didn’t even want to go. It was a family member put me in, so I didn’t want to be. I was actually gone. I would leave and go and get on it.

00:24:05:14 – 00:24:22:13
Mike Carroll
Yeah. I’d walk a bike straight. I’d walk to use and not go. Brings a couple and you know, the gear I was getting up with blindingly. Yeah, it’s good stuff. So I was all over the, you know, just going to do what people wanted me to do is make them happy. And then I would just slip off straight away into this.

00:24:22:16 – 00:24:38:01
Mike Carroll
But everyone knew I was doing it. So I saw this guy. And then after that sort of my grandad passed and I was like, I’ve got this talent where I can sell and I know I can just do it on my own. I’m just trying to cut to the, the, the part where it sort of improves.

00:24:38:01 – 00:24:40:23
Elliott Wald
And I will get there. We’ll get there. Don’t rush. So just tell.

00:24:40:23 – 00:24:41:07
Mike Carroll
Madeleine.

00:24:41:13 – 00:24:54:24
Elliott Wald
In your and you listen, you may be done every single day. You know, every day’s a fresh day. Every day’s a fresh start. That’s the way I look at life. At your height, at your worst. How often were you using? What quantity, what frequency?

00:24:55:02 – 00:25:00:07
Mike Carroll
It varied. Okay. So like, there would be there would be times I’d fall off the wagon completely.

00:25:00:13 – 00:25:01:08
Elliott Wald
What does that look like.

00:25:01:13 – 00:25:05:24
Mike Carroll
That looks like? Strangely, it would be a Sunday to a Wednesday.

00:25:06:03 – 00:25:06:24
Elliott Wald
A binge.

00:25:06:24 – 00:25:12:16
Mike Carroll
Yeah. So what triggered me was probably dropping my children off right off because I would never, ever do anything when they were there.

00:25:12:17 – 00:25:15:08
Elliott Wald
Those your boundaries, Those are my kids. I’m not doing it when they’re.

00:25:15:08 – 00:25:34:17
Mike Carroll
They’re absolutely not. Okay. And if I knew anyone had been to killed them, you know, like, I’m very passionate. My kids, everything is as clean as it can possibly be. And then my babies. So I would be, you know, when we first had this arrangement, me take dropping them back, it killed me, you know, or they’d get picked up.

00:25:34:17 – 00:25:44:02
Mike Carroll
I cry. They they kids would be back with their mum. I know you’re only 15 minutes away, but I’d be like, God, there’s only one my three days.

00:25:44:04 – 00:26:15:07
Elliott Wald
So the moment they’ve left. you’re left with your emotions, right? You can’t cope with your emotions. You don’t know what to do. You’ve never been without them. And all of a sudden, the go to thing that never lets you down is what you go to. 100. So it’s worked. Yeah. What is interesting because you know if I bring a parallel between using the packet and Cigarets just for it for a second in the 1940s it was a cigaret brand called the Strand and the radio commercial at the time said You’re never alone with a strand.

00:26:15:09 – 00:26:23:07
Elliott Wald
And that’s the same thing. It’s like, there’s my companion is not going to let me down. It’s going to be with me, it’s going to keep me company. And that’s what you do. That’s what you win.

00:26:23:07 – 00:26:30:15
Mike Carroll
So that’s exactly it. Yeah. And it was like that. But then, you know, that would happen and especially for a nice weekend with them.

00:26:30:20 – 00:26:52:13
Elliott Wald
Okay. So it’s like so the celebrating because yeah, we’ve had a really good time and you’re on this high level. Yeah. So you want to keep high, you want to keep you don’t mean up because you want to keep going and then you’ve got the, the, the flipside when they’ve left and you’re on your own, you want to get you don’t mean to make yourself feel better and would you would you the first call you pick pick the first call you make into you go what you starting with.

00:26:52:15 – 00:26:58:03
Mike Carroll
Well you know, they’re all over the place so I could get one and they round in 2 minutes if I want another one.

00:26:58:05 – 00:26:59:20
Elliott Wald
Is that what you did. A full G.

00:26:59:22 – 00:27:21:04
Mike Carroll
I’m probably point so it varied like that to go but you get text messages or whatever and a menu. Okay. It’s like it’s like going in a Tesco to someone we’ve got this is on offer today. Yeah. And it would be I’ve got one the other day. Yeah. I just popped through. Someone’s obviously got my new number and it sent, it got sent fruits me it, it was like 80 414.8.

00:27:21:07 – 00:27:22:18
Elliott Wald
Eight.

00:27:22:20 – 00:27:29:07
Mike Carroll
Point 5010. Pinpoint this is it. Yeah. I get get to. Yeah. You know it’s like a pizza deal. Yes.

00:27:29:07 – 00:27:31:17
Elliott Wald
And free side. Yeah.

00:27:31:19 – 00:27:41:16
Mike Carroll
It’s sort of point I find them funny Not tempting it’s like it’s quite amusing to read but yes. Anyway they would, I would be flicking through those offers. Right. You know, like what’s the best one they got here.

00:27:41:20 – 00:27:44:10
Elliott Wald
What’s the domino for the Peri-peri chicken today.

00:27:44:11 – 00:27:52:11
Mike Carroll
That’s exactly it. Yeah. But then what I realized was I’d be like, no, who’s the quickest? So. So I was thinks always the one who does the best stuff.

00:27:52:13 – 00:27:53:21
Elliott Wald
Because once you want it, you want it.

00:27:53:22 – 00:28:00:00
Mike Carroll
I’ll just give me the bring any shit to me. Right. And then what I would do is I would get the point for and polish that one off.

00:28:00:06 – 00:28:01:09
Elliott Wald
And how long would that take you.

00:28:01:15 – 00:28:09:12
Mike Carroll
I was always quite I was almost stingy not seeing anyone. I was with myself. I would do little bumps because I sort of worried about it ending.

00:28:09:12 – 00:28:37:05
Elliott Wald
So. So I would say so. So you can average user, an average user. Listen, there’s always going to be we’ve got we’re all do point lines and I’ll do full gremlins, you know. But listen, if you spread that out across users in general, the average use usually between 2.1, that’s pretty average to a point two per line. So if a point for the average user, we get four lines, maybe six is not going to be somebody does it in one, but 4 to 6 is pretty average.

00:28:37:05 – 00:28:38:19
Elliott Wald
So how many lines would you might get a point four.

00:28:38:23 – 00:28:41:23
Mike Carroll
Point 44 to 6. Okay. So I’d spread spreading average.

00:28:41:23 – 00:28:42:09
Elliott Wald
Okay.

00:28:42:13 – 00:28:50:01
Mike Carroll
But but then I also would then cram as much as I can in between because I actually have probably a different routine or height. Sorry.

00:28:50:03 – 00:28:53:07
Elliott Wald
So give me an idea of what time this is you getting this chopped off. So kids have.

00:28:53:07 – 00:28:56:01
Mike Carroll
Got kids have gone about it about four, five.

00:28:56:02 – 00:28:58:10
Elliott Wald
Four, five at 5:00 in the afternoon.

00:28:58:10 – 00:28:58:24
Mike Carroll
6:00.

00:28:59:01 – 00:29:05:09
Elliott Wald
6:00. You guys turned up right? Let’s say you get four lines. You do a line every 20 minutes, half an hour.

00:29:05:11 – 00:29:06:07
Mike Carroll
Every 3 minutes.

00:29:06:11 – 00:29:22:06
Elliott Wald
Every 3 to 4 minutes. So those asking you 15 minutes max. Half hour. Okay. Half an hour. Right. So do we say 5:00? You start six, six, six, seven. So so let’s say start a six by 630, you’re out, right? Yeah. Okay. You make another call.

00:29:22:08 – 00:29:24:23
Mike Carroll
I’m. I’m texting them halfway through the first one.

00:29:24:23 – 00:29:30:22
Elliott Wald
Okay. Halfway through 15 minutes in you text and you’re going What? You haven’t dropped off this time.

00:29:30:24 – 00:29:44:08
Mike Carroll
Another one. And then after that one. Then, then. Because I would always have a time frame of strangers and I would So I would say about ten or 11, if I commit myself, if I’m in bed by ten or 11. my.

00:29:44:10 – 00:29:48:16
Elliott Wald
So this isn’t the time when you’re bingeing these, these, the other times you’re using.

00:29:48:18 – 00:29:52:05
Mike Carroll
Yeah. So the binges would be more if I was out and about and I just.

00:29:52:07 – 00:30:07:04
Elliott Wald
Would come to this and let’s just go. So this is a working day the next day. So what you mean? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the next days are working those. Do you think I’m going to get another point four. So I’m a point in. I’ve got to get to bed by ten, 11, 12 because then I might get some sleep by two three.

00:30:07:04 – 00:30:22:17
Mike Carroll
Planning around the game, planning all of it around the clock. So so I would get to like 10:00 every now and then. It would slip over in to be like a midnight to 3 a.m. thing. Yeah, I was normally pretty good sort of lying there, fidgeting for, you know, a couple of hours and but not calling more in.

00:30:22:17 – 00:30:34:18
Mike Carroll
Okay, I sort of had a thing and I still live like it. Even when I was banging on it, I was like, I’m militant about my routine. I don’t know about changing. Yeah. And I could funk. I can function and I could function like 3 hours sleep. Okay. No problem at all.

00:30:34:18 – 00:30:43:15
Elliott Wald
And how long did that time? We’ll talk about bingeing in a minute. But how long did that type of usage go on for? How many years? A couple. Couple of.

00:30:43:15 – 00:30:47:17
Mike Carroll
Years. Yeah. And then it sort of it would alter and then it would go to bingeing again.

00:30:47:20 – 00:30:49:22
Elliott Wald
Don’t tell me about the bingeing there. How does that was binge?

00:30:49:22 – 00:30:55:24
Mike Carroll
I started bingeing. So so bingeing for me would be honest. It’s ridiculous. It sounds crazy.

00:30:56:01 – 00:30:59:02
Elliott Wald
I’ve heard crazy things. I mean, a crazy world.

00:30:59:04 – 00:31:15:19
Mike Carroll
Binge for me would be someone would I wouldn’t mean to binge. Someone would say, I get a message from a mate who doesn’t do anything. He just thought I just fancy a point. My junior coming over, I’d get in the car. sorry. Get all, get a cab drive, or if I’m driving, go down there. The moment I pull into autumn, I’m dropped into that pub or I pull in.

00:31:15:19 – 00:31:33:03
Mike Carroll
I know I can’t stay for the next few nights, Right. So he he doesn’t even ends up with me. The person that invited me out that I went to see, I suddenly cites them, God, I’m going to get why. And they don’t even do it. So finally, I know I’ve got all this stuff to myself, right? And then they disperse because they’re normal human beings.

00:31:33:03 – 00:31:34:04
Elliott Wald
They don’t want to be around you.

00:31:34:05 – 00:31:36:19
Mike Carroll
Well, not. Not even that. They’re just like, It’s midnight.

00:31:36:21 – 00:31:37:21
Elliott Wald
On. I’ve had enough.

00:31:37:24 – 00:31:46:16
Mike Carroll
But then there’s always a crowd in there and I will move into them. I don’t know shit because I find a bit of this stuff. I’m like, Right, guys, we’re going to meet. We’re going to talk to this almost all cell.

00:31:46:18 – 00:31:48:07
Elliott Wald
Like minded people.

00:31:48:12 – 00:31:50:01
Mike Carroll
Yeah, and I can send I can smell them.

00:31:50:01 – 00:31:51:23
Elliott Wald
Yeah. Could you do you like you like the sniffer dogs?

00:31:52:01 – 00:31:52:19
Mike Carroll
Sometimes they tell.

00:31:52:20 – 00:31:56:18
Elliott Wald
Me they use they use their on the packet. I can go and chat with them boy. Yeah. Yes.

00:31:56:20 – 00:32:02:13
Mike Carroll
And then I remember you mentioned like tribal mentality tribe. I would suddenly you’ve got friends.

00:32:02:19 – 00:32:05:17
Elliott Wald
Yes. I’m now part of your tribe. Yeah.

00:32:05:22 – 00:32:07:11
Mike Carroll
Yeah, that’s it. And you’re accepted immediately.

00:32:07:11 – 00:32:13:05
Elliott Wald
Because you’re accepted because you go. Yeah. You might offer a few lines. You’re fucking cool if it wants to chat with.

00:32:13:05 – 00:32:14:04
Mike Carroll
You exactly what was going.

00:32:14:04 – 00:32:16:09
Elliott Wald
On. And then you leave the pub has a bingeing continue.

00:32:16:15 – 00:32:33:12
Mike Carroll
I would it it depends. So I got depressed going back to I would do a little bit where I would try. People go back and we were all sitting there doing gear and like the worst thing for me was having loads of people back to mine because then you have to clean up. No one gives a shit afterwards and you’ve got to clean up and then you don’t for three days and then you just in it.

00:32:33:12 – 00:32:35:07
Elliott Wald
But it’s hard to get rid of them as well.

00:32:35:08 – 00:32:49:17
Mike Carroll
No, no, I just kick them out. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would literally go those people are frog marched to the front door and I’m like, Right, you’re done now. Go. And you know, they’re like, Well, and I’m not I’ve never seen them again. And, you know, it was, it was having people back to mind when I was on a binge.

00:32:49:17 – 00:32:57:05
Mike Carroll
I would literally be like out 6 a.m. out. It would be very rare that someone would stay there because they were all part of my guilt.

00:32:57:10 – 00:33:00:12
Elliott Wald
Right. And once they’ve gone, are you carrying on using?

00:33:00:13 – 00:33:01:05
Mike Carroll
No, no.

00:33:01:05 – 00:33:03:22
Elliott Wald
No, no. This binge is how many days?

00:33:03:24 – 00:33:06:07
Mike Carroll
The most I’ve probably done in three or four days.

00:33:06:09 – 00:33:12:20
Elliott Wald
Is that three or four days using continually and not sleeping or going to sleep, waking up, carrying on.

00:33:12:22 – 00:33:22:06
Mike Carroll
In the more recent years, going to sleep and carrying on. But but the binges before, I mean, I’d go for days without sleeping, but that would be when I was in my twenties.

00:33:22:12 – 00:33:48:08
Elliott Wald
That that is just paranoia fucks to me because yeah first of all you’re sleep deprived, right? And when you’re sleep deprived, your brain’s hallucinating anyway. Yeah. Make sense of the concoction, the pack. It mix into that concoction. Alco A third chemical compound is cocoa is what the fuck in my teeth. Cocoa ethylene. Right. Which is the third chemical compound they mixed together, which is cardio toxic gases already.

00:33:48:08 – 00:34:05:22
Elliott Wald
Your heart’s racing, right? And you had no sleep, you know, and I’ve heard plenty of people saying to me, you know, a little bugs are so spiders. I want the cameras, the all of these things. Actually, I had a client come to see me yesterday. Obviously, I’m not going to mention his name. And he went into a three day binge.

00:34:05:22 – 00:34:25:17
Elliott Wald
You know who you are. You’re going to listen to this. And he thought there were spiders were I was close. He was your average car. I think he was your average car. He said to me and he thought it was spiders all over his clothes and slept for three days, been bang on it, stopped the car, got out of the car, middle of the street, strips off his clothes and starts running down the road thinking of spiders all over him.

00:34:25:19 – 00:34:27:01
Elliott Wald
I mean, what the fuck?

00:34:27:01 – 00:34:39:19
Mike Carroll
I mean, that’s a serious. Yeah. Yeah. I had the corner of the eye thing where you’ve gone, you know, You think you see something? Yeah. Or I look down and I think a fly is hovering and there’s nothing there. It’s like almost like air bubbles that you’re seeing in the corner of your eye.

00:34:39:20 – 00:34:47:20
Elliott Wald
And Mark, the strangest thing of all, even after those experiences, it’s not enough to make somebody not do it again.

00:34:47:22 – 00:35:13:02
Mike Carroll
No, no. Well, the thing is, I mean, I never had that extent that you’ve just explained to someone. No, I mean, that’s that’s psychosis. That sounds a lot. Yeah, it’s mind was never I was always able to brush things like that often got you know, like don’t worry about it. It was quite a relaxed use like it was always casual, you know, I never got myself into a state where I was, you know, looking at the ring doorbell or looking at the cameras or anything like that, or curtains, which I never did any of that.

00:35:13:03 – 00:35:17:22
Mike Carroll
Yeah, I was almost like a face up slippers on to the kitchen and back.

00:35:17:24 – 00:35:18:15
Elliott Wald
You know. Yeah, yeah.

00:35:18:15 – 00:35:19:13
Mike Carroll
Like really chilled out.

00:35:19:14 – 00:35:39:18
Elliott Wald
I mean, I’ll tell you that. I mean, I was with Kurt Norcross event a few weeks ago and Kurt and we were some of the cameras in the paranoia. And Kurt said to me when he used to work in his dad nightclub, used to run his dad’s nightclub, and they had an office and he’d been on like two or three days and when I thought about cameras, he would, yeah, I always thought there was cameras in the lights because it was a common one.

00:35:39:18 – 00:35:53:14
Elliott Wald
Yeah. So one day he takes all the fucking bulbs out of the lights in the office. Right. And it, and he’s like, you know, you know, like you have this special walk when you’re off your tits, you know, it’s not, it’s not the normal walk is the, you know, that kind of walk.

00:35:53:14 – 00:35:54:11
Mike Carroll
You’ve been shafted. Walk.

00:35:54:11 – 00:36:19:04
Elliott Wald
Yeah. I wouldn’t know. Anyway. And he’s that comes in the office and he’s dressed like seizes office, ticks all the boxes like. Yeah, I was just taking the bulbs out there just, just changing the bulbs, You know, we do these things coax not alone. I mean, you know, I’ve done so many, I don’t even know the word is, but illogical things that don’t make any sense.

00:36:19:04 – 00:36:28:12
Elliott Wald
You know, the baseball bat, I’ve got the fucking knife, you know, strapped under the bed. You wonder who’s coming. Yeah. You know, it’s just it’s the way Leeds is.

00:36:28:12 – 00:36:40:13
Mike Carroll
It’s is scary, you know? It just shows how deep it can go. My one my one was I worked out that I would. I would only smoke if I was on it. I’m not a smoker, right. I vape, but less.

00:36:40:13 – 00:36:43:10
Elliott Wald
Now. You’re a chain smoker when you do get knocked out.

00:36:43:12 – 00:36:59:13
Mike Carroll
It wasn’t okay. What I realized was there would be a point in the night, probably on a weekend, if I was doing it, like if I didn’t have the kids and I was either our or I’d come back from wherever I was and I would I realized I got blinded a fucking fag and I got on senior. What I was doing was I was upending bags a lot too.

00:36:59:13 – 00:37:13:02
Mike Carroll
I am I was going climbing up, pulling bags out, pouring them out. And I remember once I found and I thought it was like the biggest we never know the shape of a cigaret and I don’t even know why it was there. So what I did after that is I would buy fags and I would throw them under the sea.

00:37:13:02 – 00:37:21:07
Mike Carroll
I’d like to scatter them around places and then I would like draw loads of cash out in the cash machine. I’d be like holding that. I’ll put somebody on the sofa just in case There was the event that.

00:37:21:10 – 00:37:32:15
Elliott Wald
You do with Cigarets what people who do with the packet, they they look around to see, Did I leave one in that draw? Is there one there or they tear the packet open the look in the bag. We’re trying to get the last bit.

00:37:32:20 – 00:37:37:24
Mike Carroll
I never did that and I knew, I knew that was never going to be gay around, so I know I’d done it. my. Sure it was gone.

00:37:38:00 – 00:37:39:01
Elliott Wald
You are a finisher.

00:37:39:03 – 00:37:43:16
Mike Carroll
I’ve said, look, there was not. There’s no way. I don’t understand people who can do glitter.

00:37:43:17 – 00:37:44:16
Elliott Wald
Always finishes.

00:37:44:20 – 00:38:02:10
Mike Carroll
Like of look, there’s even guys that they’ll call me now and I’ve got a few mates were still absolutely bang on it They’ll call me now and go that’s cut. Well last night and I’ve, I’ve still got one on the way for the weekend and I’ll say to them, I don’t know how you, I don’t know what you’re doing, putting it in Cornwall and making sure it stays nice and what you know, I just don’t get it.

00:38:02:14 – 00:38:03:18
Mike Carroll
If I was there, it had to go.

00:38:03:18 – 00:38:12:10
Elliott Wald
Listen, if I had a point for if I had a throw, it doesn’t matter what I’ve got. It’s going. I’m going nowhere until that’s finished.

00:38:12:10 – 00:38:18:09
Mike Carroll
I mean, I was the exact same. Yeah. I couldn’t go all the way. Finish it. It’s not. It’s not there to be pampered.

00:38:18:09 – 00:38:26:14
Elliott Wald
No. You know, talk to me a little bit about the the industry recruitment and the usage that goes on and why you think that happens.

00:38:26:16 – 00:38:30:09
Mike Carroll
I’m Well, I’ve were going to mention them.

00:38:30:09 – 00:38:32:19
Elliott Wald
No, don’t say the name. The reason John Paul Smith.

00:38:33:00 – 00:38:38:19
Mike Carroll
Yeah, the reason that happens so recruitment from what I can say what I’ve experienced.

00:38:38:19 – 00:38:39:07
Elliott Wald
Sure.

00:38:39:09 – 00:38:42:09
Mike Carroll
But I had dealings in some of the places I worked well to keep the.

00:38:42:11 – 00:38:43:02
Elliott Wald
In-house.

00:38:43:02 – 00:38:52:17
Mike Carroll
In-house status, you would have to make one internal phone call and there was a specific way that you’d have to ask them and they would be there and they’d just bring out a your desk. Wow. So.

00:38:52:19 – 00:38:56:18
Elliott Wald
So they’ve done away with the canteen. Yeah, but they’ve got the dealers.

00:38:56:22 – 00:39:02:10
Mike Carroll
And the Davis people come to me. I mean, the top bell there, we’re coming. These are guys the millions of pounds month.

00:39:02:12 – 00:39:05:05
Elliott Wald
How much does a top bill make?

00:39:05:07 – 00:39:17:12
Mike Carroll
There’s one guy that it was making north of, I don’t know, 200, 400 grand a month. Wow. You know, and the thing is, I was one of the top builders, but I was my height. I was getting nowhere near that money. But you were considered a one if you were so.

00:39:17:13 – 00:39:30:13
Elliott Wald
So even the even the the CEO of the company, if he’s got top billing, making that kind of money himself, he’s making serious money for the company and he’s just going to turn a bit of a fucking blind. If he doesn’t do himself, he’s going to turn a blind eye, right?

00:39:30:13 – 00:39:47:10
Mike Carroll
Shit, They want it. They will. They know what’s going on. Yeah, I’m so they would have one one company, but I was huge. Still very big and very strong. That very powerful company now they would have two or three on the floor. I mean they were employees, right? But they, they would carry a load of luggage. One. Yeah.

00:39:47:11 – 00:40:04:01
Mike Carroll
And all you have to do is call them because what they realized is that the sales went up when everyone else. But then what they realized was there was a time when it would drop. So they wanted you to have a habit. They took them to Vegas once and they decided they couldn’t take anyone away ever again because people end up getting arrested and not coming back.

00:40:04:01 – 00:40:13:19
Mike Carroll
And the top billing at some kind of breakdown is play hard. Yeah, but they work hard. They want you gambling to do in your money because the people are coming back off my horse. That’s all this was about.

00:40:13:19 – 00:40:21:02
Elliott Wald
Listen, if you’re well, it’s like even making that kind of money, you’re going to be on the phone, you’re going to be grafting, you’re going to be converting. You’ve been making that.

00:40:21:04 – 00:40:24:00
Mike Carroll
Lot talking because you’re obviously having a whale of a.

00:40:24:00 – 00:40:30:03
Elliott Wald
Time. Yes. So they’re spending the money, right? They’re going to want to earn my money.

00:40:30:05 – 00:40:44:24
Mike Carroll
That’s exactly. You know, it’s I mean, there was some guys that were they were I would say they’re sort of we controlled it. They were only too much for it to be a problem. But if you’ve got a guy who’s sort of average earn is getting, I don’t know, you know, probably 510 grand a month. Yeah, those would like that.

00:40:45:01 – 00:41:04:19
Mike Carroll
I know that they would have problem month. So I was I fell into that category. Yeah. And they the they’re the guys that the problem is it’s enough to blow. Yes. On that on that habit and it’s it’s very easy to continue to make that it’s a cycle that’s very hard to get out of. Yeah So you’ll notice that most salespeople who live month to month, that’s such a thing.

00:41:04:21 – 00:41:06:18
Elliott Wald
They’re covering their bills.

00:41:06:20 – 00:41:08:03
Mike Carroll
They’re covering their coat cover as well.

00:41:08:03 – 00:41:09:15
Elliott Wald
Covering the cover in the pocket.

00:41:09:20 – 00:41:27:24
Mike Carroll
That’s used to be open conversations about that. Like, right, Well, I used to sit with guys and go, I got to run this month. Okay. Right. So give my message to this ten left. Well, I was never a huge spender on man, right? I always kept it moderate. I mean, my worst would have been sort of four or 500 quid a week.

00:41:27:24 – 00:41:29:16
Mike Carroll
And that was never consistent. Okay.

00:41:29:16 – 00:41:32:17
Elliott Wald
So it’s still a chunk of change. You have 500 quid a week is.

00:41:32:17 – 00:41:35:16
Mike Carroll
But if you compare it to what was the money was what I was getting at the time.

00:41:35:18 – 00:41:39:07
Elliott Wald
It’s in, it’s in, you know. Yeah. What’s the word I’m thinking.

00:41:39:09 – 00:41:46:20
Mike Carroll
It’s almost like it was well balanced in what I was, what I was earning at the time. But let me tell you, if I hadn’t been in that money, I would still have spent four 500 I wasted.

00:41:46:21 – 00:42:06:15
Elliott Wald
That’s the problem. That’s the problem. When you suddenly earn that kind of money, you got a four or £500, whether it’s a week or every couple of weeks habit. Yeah. And then you don’t have that income capacity coming in and now you’ve lost your job and now you’re like, I fucking know now you’re stressing. And one of the ways of dealing with a stress is go to use and now you’re chicken and now you’re in problem.

00:42:06:18 – 00:42:14:13
Mike Carroll
Absolutely. Yeah. So I was, I was, I forgot where I was.

00:42:14:13 – 00:42:22:00
Elliott Wald
Now you were billing for 5000 a month. Yeah, it was in £500 a week but not every single week.

00:42:22:01 – 00:42:32:23
Mike Carroll
Well no it was, I mean yeah. And it just sort of grew from there so, so I then moved on to another company and became one of the directors there. And at that point you look after a whole team. So your money shot right up.

00:42:33:00 – 00:42:51:06
Elliott Wald
Can I ask you a question? Yeah. And so now you’re a director because you moved into another company and therefore if you’re a director, you are in charge of the staff. Yeah, Yeah. You want your staff to make the company money, so you want them to be full on to the wall. Yeah. So you want them to be using.

00:42:51:08 – 00:42:57:01
Elliott Wald
But on the flip side of it, you don’t want them to be using because you know what you’ve been through yourself. How do you how do you deal with that?

00:42:57:05 – 00:42:58:21
Mike Carroll
I never encouraged.

00:42:58:23 – 00:43:00:00
Elliott Wald
No, it is a courage.

00:43:00:00 – 00:43:16:12
Mike Carroll
Sorry. It was all for me. I was selfish. So when I went into the company, I’d sort of done it such a long time. I was. I was bored. So I was sort of like, Right, we’ve got this opportunity here. Some guy invested a lot of money in this as well. I shouldn’t laugh really, but ask about. Yeah, yeah.

00:43:16:14 – 00:43:33:11
Mike Carroll
You know, it was guy, it was one of those angel investors and he was like, It’s got underground, make it work. I think we, yeah, we took the money and you know I started Yeah they probably did the right thing and sort of get rid of me. It was the bad time for me, but I’m with the employees.

00:43:33:16 – 00:43:56:03
Mike Carroll
I just wanted them to be with me as like a you know, there was one chap in particular, I won’t mention his name, but he was, he was the Apprentice and we brought him in and he was a really intelligent and autistic, and I turned him into an absolute sales machine because he started becoming, you know, as they say, they start wanting their own arson industry and he was making his own money and whatever else that’s when I sort of got hold of him.

00:43:56:04 – 00:44:07:02
Mike Carroll
It began out every day and he was like, Mike, it’s like 10:00 in the morning. We’ve only just arrived at the office. And I’m like, No, look, we’re going to go and have a little walk down Oxford Street, and then we’re going to go to the pub and we’ll be back for 2:00. We wouldn’t come back for days.

00:44:07:06 – 00:44:11:24
Elliott Wald
You want to show them the other side? Life like this is the reward for early money and making having a good time. Well, it’s.

00:44:11:24 – 00:44:18:16
Mike Carroll
Sort of that as well. But it was mainly I didn’t really give a shit about and it for me it was I want to do this and I don’t wanna do it alone.

00:44:18:18 – 00:44:19:19
Elliott Wald
You just wanted a companion.

00:44:19:19 – 00:44:20:21
Mike Carroll
These guys weren’t even using.

00:44:20:21 – 00:44:22:03
Elliott Wald
You were the enabler. Yeah.

00:44:22:04 – 00:44:38:18
Mike Carroll
No, I was there, but it made sense because they looked me as a person of power when really I was just being an idiot and selfish. And, you know, don’t get me wrong, it’s. It’s. It did very well with the business. It was just. I was just fucking bored. And that was a very low time for me as well.

00:44:38:20 – 00:44:55:24
Mike Carroll
So that was sort of my first, I could say position of power. But then yeah, I mean they voted me out and rightfully so. But I yeah, like I said, I was sort of looking back in hindsight, everything that’s happened, it’s just, you know, I feel like I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now if none of this had happened, you know?

00:44:56:04 – 00:44:57:11
Mike Carroll
So I don’t have any regrets.

00:44:57:12 – 00:45:09:14
Elliott Wald
No, I don’t believe in regrets. Yeah. You know, I think in life you go through what you don’t want to understand and then what you do. Well, let’s talk about your usage in terms of alcohol. Wasn’t your big thing, was it not?

00:45:09:14 – 00:45:09:24
Mike Carroll
I mean, did.

00:45:09:24 – 00:45:11:08
Elliott Wald
You draw a sniff?

00:45:11:10 – 00:45:28:00
Mike Carroll
Yeah. I mean, there’ll be times I did and it was fluctuating. So if I was out I would use and drink and if I was indoors I would happen to sniff. Okay. Actually there was almost something I liked about it. It wasn’t, it wasn’t like I had to sit there and go, God, I’m not a drink. Should I do this?

00:45:28:02 – 00:45:29:24
Mike Carroll
For me, it was like not doing it.

00:45:30:01 – 00:45:35:14
Elliott Wald
So. So when you’re indoors and you use it on your own, you enjoy sniffing what you’re doing.

00:45:35:16 – 00:45:44:20
Mike Carroll
Exactly what you would do in your living room as a normal person. So I don’t go on. I wouldn’t walk around and like me looking at the window and stuff like that, either the X factor on.

00:45:44:22 – 00:45:46:05
Elliott Wald
The X factor or whatever.

00:45:46:05 – 00:45:46:23
Mike Carroll
Is, you know.

00:45:47:00 – 00:45:51:13
Elliott Wald
So you’re watching Navy Terrestrial TV or Netflix or one of them things.

00:45:51:13 – 00:45:53:16
Mike Carroll
I just didn’t want, nor does because I became so functional.

00:45:53:18 – 00:46:02:06
Elliott Wald
So you’re you’re let’s say you go to the dining room so you go to the bathroom so you’re racking up a line. Yeah. And then you come down. It’s like, on TV, new.

00:46:02:07 – 00:46:04:24
Mike Carroll
Recliner chair goes up sort of feet and nice and comfortable, and you.

00:46:04:24 – 00:46:06:03
Elliott Wald
Just sit there watching TV.

00:46:06:06 – 00:46:11:00
Mike Carroll
David And his voice is a very good thing to listen to when you’re on it. I find or found. Okay, So.

00:46:11:00 – 00:46:15:22
Elliott Wald
So and then and then you get back out, do another line, come back and watch TV. Yes. I’ve got to tell you.

00:46:15:24 – 00:46:17:09
Mike Carroll
my coffee.

00:46:17:11 – 00:46:36:03
Elliott Wald
I go to in my day. I could never fucking do that. I mean, I can remember way back in the day and I used to use my best mate who passed away. A lot of people know the story I did. I spoke about the life of the other one to go and see it’s crops. Some but used to use with him like literally every Wednesday.

00:46:36:03 – 00:46:54:02
Elliott Wald
Wednesday was our day and usually a Friday as well with him together right. And I remember it saw him being in his house. I don’t remember what film came out, but it was the old days of DVDs. Yes. I’m not fucking old, you know, DVD and a player. And like we start racking up and, you know, the next thing I know is, was the credits coming up.

00:46:54:02 – 00:47:08:11
Elliott Wald
And I could not tell you what that fucking film was about. I’ve never been able to concentrate on a film. Yeah, in fact, me, I prefer the sound being turned down and then eventually gets turned off. You know, always people back in the day when I used to go out and used to use and we’d go to bars and we’d go to clubs.

00:47:08:13 – 00:47:26:15
Elliott Wald
I don’t know how I did it because, you know, you’d be there raving and partying and having a good time. But for me, as that journey progressed, I didn’t like any noise, I didn’t like music and I didn’t like the TV on. I didn’t like sound on lights song. But but you’d sit there and watch TV.

00:47:26:16 – 00:47:28:02
Mike Carroll
Yeah, yeah, I’d sit and watch TV.

00:47:28:03 – 00:47:31:00
Elliott Wald
Be normal without being all cool people.

00:47:31:02 – 00:47:40:17
Mike Carroll
Yeah. Lot of conversation with someone on the phone. Okay. I don’t have a clue. They wouldn’t know there was. There’s only a couple of people they’ll call and they would go, Alright, this is all. This is all rubbish.

00:47:40:17 – 00:47:57:07
Elliott Wald
So now I want to get to Mark. Is this right. So you’ve gone through all this, right? And then eventually do think about it and you get clean, right. Yeah. And around that same sort of time you then start your own business. Right. You go into your own recruitment company. Right. I did have a run down what the company called.

00:47:57:09 – 00:48:00:13
Mike Carroll
I’m.

00:48:00:15 – 00:48:03:09
Elliott Wald
And you deal with the medical recruitment world, right?

00:48:03:09 – 00:48:16:11
Mike Carroll
Yeah. So it’s a group of companies and it’s nursing education. I mean we’ve, we, we support private hospitals with, you know, people that have substance misuse issues, you know, and it just it grew extremely quickly.

00:48:16:11 – 00:48:38:11
Elliott Wald
So don’t spoil it. I said. So I’m a great believer that addiction personalities is not a classification any more in the latest research is impulsivity. But, you know what? Fuck that. We’re going to talk about addiction personalities. I certainly am a great believer in addictive personalities. I always use myself as a model. When I used to use I was all in right.

00:48:38:13 – 00:48:52:03
Elliott Wald
I went to the gym. People who know me, I used to compete as a bodybuilder, you know, I used to train day in, day out, years and years and years and years, six days a week, twice a week. You know, compete on stage all over the all over the country. Right. And I was fully and I still got to the gym.

00:48:52:06 – 00:49:11:10
Elliott Wald
I’m old now and I do my bit and I still go five days a week on that two bed place. And, you know, when I work, I work tremendous hours. You know, I put 60, 70 hours in every single 60 hours minimum. I think last week was 78 hours. You know, by the time you see what your clients are once for my clients, I’m passionate about what I do.

00:49:11:15 – 00:49:34:20
Elliott Wald
I want to spend time. My clients are to put the case histories together. You know, if the strategy is what I’m going to do, then I’ve got all my contents of film in the podcast. I’ve got other TV opportunities booked, some range. So I work tremendous out. So that addictive personality, right? I think once you stop using, you somehow homed that addictive personality.

00:49:34:22 – 00:49:36:24
Elliott Wald
Yeah. Into building this business. Right.

00:49:36:24 – 00:49:55:24
Mike Carroll
100% what it was a couple of things for me that spurred me on to do it. Suddenly my granddad passed away. Announcement 21 Yeah, and we, the whole family, we were all very close. He was very, very successful. He owned a young people’s home for years and he was doing that, you know, throughout the nineties, entire family worked for him.

00:49:56:01 – 00:50:09:00
Mike Carroll
He passed away and I remember I was probably hung over when or in some sort of down a when he passed away. That was a really low point for me. But I remember we all took turns to go and see him for one last time. You know, he was lying there dead.

00:50:09:02 – 00:50:10:20
Elliott Wald
Yeah. And I tell you goodbyes.

00:50:10:23 – 00:50:31:13
Mike Carroll
That’s exactly it. Yeah. And I said to him, you know, I’m I’m going to make you proud, you know? And I remember leaving there, and I just thought the company just started. And within months it was everything just took off and I needed to hire new people. And I was too busy to do any of that shit and I didn’t want to.

00:50:31:15 – 00:50:41:02
Mike Carroll
So there would be times when I would fall off, you know, and sort of it would just be dabble here or there. Yeah. And then it got less and less and less. And then it would, it would sort of come back in bounce.

00:50:41:02 – 00:50:42:10
Elliott Wald
Yeah.

00:50:42:12 – 00:50:46:06
Mike Carroll
But you know, it’s become so big and we opened up like another branch of it.

00:50:46:06 – 00:50:56:16
Elliott Wald
But you had this focus on this is what I’m doing. You allowed your addictiveness. Yeah. Away from the packing into buildings. Something. Yeah. For you, For your kids.

00:50:56:19 – 00:50:57:14
Mike Carroll
Absolutely. For your.

00:50:57:14 – 00:50:58:02
Elliott Wald
Future.

00:50:58:03 – 00:51:04:10
Mike Carroll
For everything. And to be fair, you know, it’s sort of the the worry I’ve got now is it’s all achieved that already.

00:51:04:15 – 00:51:21:15
Elliott Wald
What will we do it. One minute we’ll do that. Right. But what I want the what I want the listeners to get is this. You took it more or less from zero, right? Okay. To 2023. So the people, the turnover of your company. Come on.

00:51:21:15 – 00:51:22:21
Mike Carroll
Sharing, sharing. It was nine.

00:51:22:21 – 00:51:52:07
Elliott Wald
Million 9 million fucking pounds turnover. Now, let me just tell you this, right? You’re just sitting with somebody who’s gone from telling you his story about his addiction, right to starting a company, to changing his focus, to using his addictive personality, to building that from 0 to £9 million turnover a year last year. And I’m not just telling you because I know Mike my I know my wants a client, right?

00:51:52:09 – 00:51:59:11
Elliott Wald
I helped Mike back in the day. Let me just tell you this. If Mike can do it, you can fucking do it. Karen We’re going to solve.

00:51:59:13 – 00:52:21:13
Mike Carroll
So the problem you’ve got, I’m finding even now and obviously we spent some time together. Yeah. So you’re aware is that once you peaked too early. I’m your own industry. Change up and switch you out because I now have a company that wants own backside, Right. So I have a lot of time on my hand. Yeah. So I almost panicked a few weeks ago, quite a bit.

00:52:21:15 – 00:52:24:03
Mike Carroll
Had a wobble that never led to. Yeah.

00:52:24:05 – 00:52:26:00
Elliott Wald
And I hit your head.

00:52:26:02 – 00:52:37:15
Mike Carroll
Into my head to get board. So what I do when I’m bored is I started going out and buying things because it was taking my mind off it. So I went and got a new car. I went, well, there is lovely things to do, but.

00:52:37:18 – 00:52:42:15
Elliott Wald
This one on the gym angle is pick up on that because you go because I recommend you go in some lodgings. You live quite close.

00:52:42:18 – 00:52:45:14
Mike Carroll
I’m about minutes away from it. So there’s no excuse me really not to.

00:52:45:14 – 00:52:47:02
Elliott Wald
And you’re going to go,

00:52:47:04 – 00:52:52:11
Mike Carroll
I’ll join this weekend. I’ve given you my word. You’ve given me you. I’ll join you. Well, that’s no problem, but it looks great as well.

00:52:52:11 – 00:53:03:18
Elliott Wald
So fucking awesome. Jim. Graft is a mission to graft, Isn’t Jim, by the way, he Watford, Let me just get back to this because you said, you know, once you start achieving, there’s another fear behind that.

00:53:03:18 – 00:53:04:16
Mike Carroll
It’s almost more dangerous.

00:53:04:16 – 00:53:26:04
Elliott Wald
Well, let me tell you this, because when the astronauts first landed on the moon and this is a fact right? Every astronaut, the first landed on the moon, when they came back, they all suffered with massive depression. And when this psychotherapist started to talk to them to say, you know, you know, they all had different answers, but it all amounted to the same thing.

00:53:26:06 – 00:53:47:05
Elliott Wald
You know, why do you have this depression? They once you’ve been to the fucking moon, what else is there to achieve? And that’s what happens when you build success, right? And the only way to address that is you have to have multiple outcomes, multiple goals, multiple things you want to achieve in life. You know, what’s the next house, What I want for my children, Where do I want them to be?

00:53:47:05 – 00:54:05:01
Elliott Wald
What can I leave them? What can I do? What I want in my health? How do I want to look? What do I want to eat? You’ve got to apply. You’ve got you’ve got to have this. Listen, to get clean, you have to be a laser. You have to be completely focused to build a business successful. You have to be complete laser focused.

00:54:05:03 – 00:54:25:24
Elliott Wald
Once you’ve achieved those, right, you can have a shotgun approach to try and do other things in life. And that’s what you really need to do. You need to apply a shotgun approach. And I want to do this, this, this, this, this, this I had. One thing is something you might think about. I don’t know. I haven’t completed this yet, but one day I’m sitting at home and it’s New Year’s Eve.

00:54:26:01 – 00:54:48:15
Elliott Wald
And every New Year’s Eve you see fireworks going off in certain countries of the world, Sydney Harbor Bridge. They go off in Hong Kong, the Gulf in London. Right. I don’t know how many countries you go often. And I said to myself, before I die, I want to be exactly not just in that country. I want to be exactly where they set those fireworks off every New Year’s Eve in the world.

00:54:48:17 – 00:55:04:02
Elliott Wald
And against Australia, because I actually went there to do my own TV show in Sydney anyway, and then the Sydney Harbor Bridge gun that wasn’t there on New Year’s Eve doesn’t have to be on the day. Well, this is one of the ones in London. There’s a few I’ve ticked off the list. But you know something? We’ve got to find something cool.

00:55:04:04 – 00:55:19:22
Mike Carroll
You have to have something that’s I mean, I’m sort of going through that process now. I mean, the other week I sort of sitting there, I was going about what night it was going to be a good night for another business, because this one does itself now, can’t be without something to do. So I start another one, and I know that do very well as well.

00:55:19:24 – 00:55:33:11
Mike Carroll
And it’s the only way to make me think if that’s doing itself and I feel left out my own company. Yeah, to do something in my employees. A guy that’s a slave. It’s not just government. You deserve to relax now. And I’m like, Well, that’s the most dangerous thing you can say to me if I do it. I’ve got too much time on my hands.

00:55:33:15 – 00:55:40:07
Mike Carroll
Too much time. And now money as well. You know, it’s sort of like it’s it’s just every opportunity that I need or if not want to do, I can do.

00:55:40:07 – 00:55:41:01
Elliott Wald
Yes.

00:55:41:03 – 00:55:56:14
Mike Carroll
So I don’t like that. I like to remain regimented. So now I’m like, right, no business. Let’s start again. Let’s build that one up. So exactly what you’re saying is true. You set goals and things like, you know, I sort of got back into working out again, you know, last couple of months when you said go to the gym and definitely do it.

00:55:56:16 – 00:56:17:11
Elliott Wald
I know you do. And that’s why I said, Yeah. The reason I said that she is this my because, listen, I’ve trained for, like I don’t know, 37 years consistently, you know, all the time. And I’m trying quite seriously if anyone wants to come and work out with me. You’re welcome. I still can kick some ass. I and I personally think if I had a gym at home, it’s like I will do it later.

00:56:17:12 – 00:56:34:02
Elliott Wald
I’ll do it later. I can’t Beyonce do it now. Even me who loves on passion, I enjoy training, right? I think having a gym at home is such a difficult thing. Besides, then you go out, you’re going somewhere, you’re focused on that intent of getting there, and then you’ve got plenty of other equipment that you couldn’t possibly have at home.

00:56:34:02 – 00:56:37:01
Elliott Wald
Certainly not in my gym. Yeah. So I think that’s a great thing to do.

00:56:37:02 – 00:56:52:04
Mike Carroll
Definitely. Yeah, definitely. So, yeah. I mean, look, I’m I’m in a good place now, obviously. You know, I’ve been talking with you and fairly regularly and yeah, I feel like I’ve been in a good place for a while and yeah, it’s just about keeping busy.

00:56:52:05 – 00:57:06:05
Elliott Wald
Mike, it’s been lovely to have you. But before you go, I just want to ask you, what advice would you give to somebody else who’s struggling with an addiction and just can’t see the way out right now?

00:57:06:07 – 00:57:20:20
Mike Carroll
I would say, you know, you have to make a choice. Do you want to continue whereas or do you want to start opening up and changing it? I think the biggest problem people have is they don’t want to talk about it. Yeah, why don’t you talk about it? There is a way out because people will help you and they will light up yourself.

00:57:20:22 – 00:57:29:09
Mike Carroll
I would say if it’s a secretive thing, open up and talk about it. It’s the only way out. Seek help. You know, everybody you know, it’s a very open thing now.

00:57:29:09 – 00:57:33:04
Elliott Wald
Yeah, I listen, I’m not against anything I always say. You got to find what works for you.

00:57:33:05 – 00:57:52:16
Mike Carroll
Of course. Yeah. And as many different ways people do it, some people are able to stop it. Some people have to go to see. Some people have to seek therapy. It works, try to move, you know, And eventually it is a life. I thought it could be different. I could be excited about anything by anything else. Now I have other things that excite me over that, and I never thought it could be that way because I loved it so much.

00:57:52:16 – 00:57:55:21
Mike Carroll
Yeah, now I’m, you know, I’m like, you know.

00:57:55:23 – 00:58:00:17
Elliott Wald
I think once you get out of denial, it’s a question of how bad did you fucking want it?

00:58:00:17 – 00:58:09:11
Mike Carroll
You have to want to stop. That’s the key. Yeah. Do you want to stop? If you do fucking stop and deal with it? If you don’t want to stop, carry on. You know you have to want it.

00:58:09:11 – 00:58:11:23
Elliott Wald
Listen, I don’t judge people. That’s what you wanna do. You go fucking do it.

00:58:12:02 – 00:58:19:14
Mike Carroll
We all know people still do. And that’s their choice. Yeah. If you want to stop, you’ll find a way to do it. Yeah, Yeah. You know, but you hit a low point first.

00:58:19:16 – 00:58:23:19
Elliott Wald
Definitely. Mike, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming out.

00:58:23:20 – 00:58:25:11
Mike Carroll
And I thank you. Thank you for having me.